RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,121
Posts: 5,400,996
Members: 24,743
Currently online: 523
Newest member: jessydhillon

TrekToday headlines

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: How do you feel about the Spock/Uhura pairing?
I LOVE them together! 29 46.77%
I generally think they’re okay together. 12 19.35%
Not my preference, but I don’t mind them together. 13 20.97%
I HATE them together. 8 12.90%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 29 2012, 01:09 AM   #166
UFO
Captain
 
UFO's Avatar
 
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Malaika wrote: View Post
I was about to write something similar.
and sorry Ufo, I don't have the energy to read everything you said and reply again. I don't want to go off topic again, plus it's pretty much obvious that you are as biased as the rest of us is although from the tone of your posts I bet you think that your interpretations are undeniable absolute facts.
No, I believe they are matters of probability only. I was going by what we have every reason to expect of the Spock character from what we see in TOS. I have explained my reasons for preferring Spock to remain true to that character if that’s what qualifies as "biased" in your view. The movies suggest he became more relaxed in later life and that does make a certain amount of sense (being around humans and dieing of course) but I don’t recall he ever had a relationship in any of them. I have also explained why I believe a younger Spock would, if anything, be more Vulcan rather than less, fresh out of Vulcan socialisation. Now his mother may have off set that but if so, why does he decide to become more Vulcan later on? And could he even do so if his training had been "corrupted"?

Now you may believe I am mistaken in any or all, of the above, but the important thing to understand is that those reasons are a more than adequate defence against your charges of double standards and hypocrisy. In particular they explain why I think nuSpock is far less likely to be "available" for a relationship with Uhura or any other woman. As for my "tone", that probably had more to do with being wrongly accused of having double standards and your apparent assumption that anyone who disagrees with your view of the situation has to be morally suspect.

UFO wrote:
First, as mentioned, it was only "sudden" from our point of view.
and we can say the same about the ones that dislike Spock/Uhura for the same reason
UFO wrote:
It seems you were suffering from shock (of more than one type), not implausibility.
same as above
UFO wrote:
It could have easily progress[ed] over years of "prime time", to coin a phrase, before STV. It just didn’t show up on screen before that.
same could be said about Spock/Uhura both in TOS and ST09
Then, If we want to talk about hints from TOS then Nichelle Nichols is totally right. Between the two the only CANON clues we could find in TOS did hint to Spock/Uhura and never to Scotty/Uhura. Whatever you think that happened offscreen between Scotty/Uhura is up to you and your opinion. It's also called fanfiction. But it makes your argument against Spock/Uhura hypocritical for afore mentioned reasons and the number of excuses you are using to justify Scotty/Uhura all the while denying Spock/Uhura for the reasons that seem to make you believe that the first were not only believable but happened (of screen, in your fantasy) in TOS
all the while denying or minimize the actual hints of Spock/Uhura
Firstly, I did not say I thought anything happened between Uhura and Scotty before STV. It was speculation, so please don’t put words in my mouth or be so quick to jump to conclusions. Actually, I don’t think either relationship needs prior justifications or "hints". The only question for me is: When the shock wears off, does it make sense? Nothing prevented Scotty/Uhura from making sense at that time (STV). It even worked fairly well until that silly bit at the end. But, as mentioned above, Spock/Uhura is a different story. Other people may only be concerned with whether they like Spock and Uhura together. They may put believability in terms of TOS consistency, aside. I just don’t agree it’s a good idea to do that on this occasion.

Second, I would not be surprised if you don’t know what the word "hypocritical" actually means, or that it is a rather nasty insult to throw around so causally. For example it does not mean: "Only stating one side of a case". If it did, debaters would all be hypocrites! It certainly doesn’t mean: "Trying to explain why (in this case) the shock of seeing Scotty and Uhura together does not mean such a relationship couldn’t have developed", which, of course, is all I was doing. I have never denied that any of the statements of mine you quote above (concerning Scotty), couldn’t also apply (theoretically) to Spock. If you think I did, please point it out. Otherwise, please tell me, where is the double standard or hypocrisy in what I actually said as apposed to what you assume I meant?

Malaika wrote: View Post
And I see what you're trying to do with the comment about Uhura flirting with Spock as her being just playful, it just adds even more double standard in the whole Spock/Uhura vs Uhura/Scotty argument: She still had, in text, flirting scenes with SPOCK, unlike Scotty. So she showed, to some degree, an interest in him (he also did teach her how to play the vulcan lyre and he complimented her)
All that is happening is I am suggesting one explanation for what was going on in TOS and you are suggesting other. For some reason you are allowed to try to spin those scenes your way, but I am not allowed to spin them my way, under pain of being branded immoral no less! Kind of ironic for someone claiming others have double standards.

So once again:
UFO wrote:
Where is the double standard here? ... .
I see plenty but I won't argument this more than that
It’s sad that you attempted to sully my character without providing at least one legitimate example to back up your claim. That hardly seems fair. On the other hand, if you find something I will happily apologise and retract it (or perhaps explain why its not really a double standard if you haven't yet got a handle on that).

By the way I am glad you found some of my post funny. Now that I have cooled down a bit, I actually find your unfortunate quote below hilarious too:

Malaika wrote: View Post
... especially not Uhura/Scotty that not only did came out from nowhere in TFF … but it was bad taste, frankly, as they were old people …"
UFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 01:34 AM   #167
Spock/Uhura Fan
Captain
 
Spock/Uhura Fan's Avatar
 
Location: Where It's At.
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

We need more pictures.

__________________
MA'AM. Hot damn, I can dig it.

“The history of men's opposition to women's emancipation is more interesting perhaps than the story of that emancipation itself.” - Virginia Woolf
Spock/Uhura Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 01:48 AM   #168
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

UFO wrote: View Post
Malaika wrote: View Post
Malaika wrote: View Post
... especially not Uhura/Scotty that not only did came out from nowhere in TFF … but it was bad taste, frankly, as they were old people …"
How did I miss this gem
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 06:15 AM   #169
Spock/Uhura Fan
Captain
 
Spock/Uhura Fan's Avatar
 
Location: Where It's At.
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

UFO wrote: View Post
No, I believe they are matters of probability only. I was going by what we have every reason to expect of the Spock character from what we see in TOS. I have explained my reasons for preferring Spock to remain true to that character...
I didn't read your post at first and, having had the time to do so now, there are so many things I could respond to, but I'll just pick a choice few like the comment above.

That's just it, UFO. That character doesn't exist in this timeline. And as you yourself pointed out, when an older Spock (i.e. "that character") from the original timeline appears in this film, even the Prime Spock that you knew had changed some because of time and circumstance. Change a part of life.

Having the freedom to explore what Spock (and others) would have been like if certain events, or what have you, changed was the whole point of a "reboot." You're going to get *some* of what you knew from this character previously, but not everything. You appear to be saying that you understand this, but then you'll say something else that proves that you don't, at least not completely.

I understand people are set in their ways, but can we all just agree that these characters are not going to be carbon-copies of the originals, even if some of us don't like it? If they wanted him to "remain true" to that character, then they wouldn't have gone through the trouble of changing events that "alter" the timeline, therefore creating new circumstances and "changed" characters. To expect him to be the same makes absolutely no sense after seeing the film. I can understand expecting the same thing you saw before if you just walked into the movie blind, but after watching it and seeing that the creators of this new "version" of Star Trek had something different in mind, to just keep "expecting" them to do the same thing is beyond me. I hope that's not what you're asking for because that would be boring in my mind. Haven't you already seen that?


... In particular they explain why I think nuSpock is far less likely to be "available" for a relationship with Uhura or any other woman.
And after watching the 2009 film, I would say that with the loss of his mother being so immediate and unexpected, it would be more likely that he would desire and be "available" (as far as needs go) for a relationship with Uhura or some other human woman even if he hadn't already been seeing her. There is the destruction of Vulcan, and like new Spock said, it's logical for him to help replenish the Vulcan population. That's where the Spock you've seen in TOS comes into play. Like the great old man said, "You can be in two places at once." He essentially freed new Spock of his "logical" burden, or obligation, to help his fellow Vulcans in that way.

Getting back to the loss of his mother, now, most of my background here is from fanfiction (I've seen some episodes and a few movies with my mother), so you'll have to tell me what's real and what's made-up, but don't Vulcans have telepathic connections to those they are close to? If this is the case, at least the way I read it, then the loss of his mother would be tremendous because he could literally "feel" her presence (in a manner of speaking) everywhere he went. If what I read was correct, then he didn't just see her being taken from him and have to deal with the impact of that, he also "felt" her being taken from him. A presence that was always there his entire life was just gone in an instant. Missing that "human touch" could cause him to desire a bond with Uhura, who he was already in love with, which would help him stable himself emotionally (even if he can wear a poker face) while he gets used to dealing with the hole left behind from that loss. When I read about their telepathic links, it just made me have a better appreciation for that scene in the movie where the Prime Spock that you know explains to new Kirk that he is (as well as the other "he") emotionally compromised.

After the meld, Kirk, who's not used to displaying an ever-present poker face, is our visual of what the Spocks are feeling on the inside, and he's so overwhelmed by the loss he literally had to catch his breath. Now, I know that some of the emotion might be different because Prime Spock might have felt some sorrow or guilt even (logic aside) because he couldn't get there in time to save the Romulans, but whatever he does feel about that (I'd imagine) new Spock felt anger in equal parts. He didn't know that guy, never met him, never promised him anything, but much of everything was taken from him by this crazed man from another time. So, Kirk obviously didn't feel the anger, but everything he did feel, he felt very deeply. I'm guessing the sense of loss is part of that. Such a major loss like that early in life can really change a person's outlook, especially when they've got another version of themselves to "free" them up from being logical in this regard so they can pursue what they actually might like. And as T'Pol says (I'm watching Ent right now), "like" is an emotion. That's just my view; I understand that you might feel differently.

You mentioned something about him being more "Vulcanized" because he's younger and spent most of his life with them, but 1) he'd been around humans for a few years when we were introduced the the "new Spock" and 2) More importantly, when he left the VSA after rejecting them, he didn't seem too keen on maintaining a purely Vulcan lifestyle as he headed to Earth to join Starfleet and the "humans."




But, as mentioned above, Spock/Uhura is a different story. Other people may only be concerned with whether they like Spock and Uhura together. They may put believability in terms of TOS consistency, aside. I just don’t agree it’s a good idea to do that on this occasion.
I guess this is the crux of where we disagree because that precisly was the idea when they made a reboot in an alternate timeline, and consequently it is the fact. It's not my idea, good or bad (I think it's great), but rather what was in the film. Consistency was "set aside" as soon as they "changed" the timeline and therefore the characters. Expecting this younger, somewhat different, version of Spock to be "consistent" with his counterpart in TOS is exactly what I was talking about in my first response to you above. You seem to say that you get they are not the same, but then you "expect" them to be just that. They'll have some things in common, even exact, but they won't be consistently the same.
---------------------------------------------------------

On to more pictures. This one's for Greg Cox:



I couldn't find Zoe with any women, so this will have to suffice in keeping the fantasy alive, lol.
__________________
MA'AM. Hot damn, I can dig it.

“The history of men's opposition to women's emancipation is more interesting perhaps than the story of that emancipation itself.” - Virginia Woolf
Spock/Uhura Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 09:44 AM   #170
Malaika
Lieutenant Commander
 
Malaika's Avatar
 
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

teacake wrote: View Post
UFO wrote: View Post
Malaika wrote: View Post
How did I miss this gem
it was supposed to be a bit funny but really Uhura was never allowed to get a love interest in the show, Roddenberry had wanted to explore a relationship with Spock and her but he never could. Racism was so rampant that even the Kirk/Uhura kiss (that was supposed to be between Spock/Uhura originally ) had to happen while they were forced.
Young beautiful Uhura had to get ignored just because she was black and the actress had to endure a lot of racism from the network and production. It was already a miracle that she actual was in the show. She even thought about leaving it.
Of course the only time Uhura was ever allowed to get an actual love interest it had to happen in STV when she was old and of course it had to happen while she was under the influence of Syboc who essentially used her. So she almost seduced Scotty who was her friend and rejected her advantages. This is bad taste for me and a disservice for her character. Too little and too late and too forced. (not to mention the dancing scene that would have been bad even if she was young) and then I read people that justify that crap all the while they accuse JJ and their version of Uhura saying that she was sexualized or reduced to a love interest. Talk about irony here.
Not to mention the ones that make it seems that STV is more "canon" than ST2009 when Roddenberry himself despised that movie.
Again, no wonder why they completely dropped that romance subplot in the next movies, and yet some people make it seems that it was this oh so well developed love story and they recton TOS with imaginary scenes where Uhura wanted to sex up Scotty with her eyes
I've read people actually saying this kind of things, mainly slash Kirk/Spock fans though, even funnier when the same people that retcon the Scotty/Uhura interactions (?) from TOS are the ones that negate the Spock/Uhura flirting scenes. JJ had nothing to take inspiration from, apparently, while STV writers had all these hints of Uhura's hopeless love for Scotty you're just so blind if you don't notice their great love story in all those episodes and movies prior STV.

I was going by what we have every reason to expect of the Spock character from what we see in TOS. I have explained my reasons for preferring Spock to remain true to that character...
Spock's character according to YOU that is the side of him that you choose to consider "all of him" but there are examples about TOS Spock that contradict your opinion or, more correctly, make it just your personal interpretation that isn't more valid than others or mine.
He wasn't a "monk" in the canon. He had plenty of love interest and he was obviously attracted to women. He wasn't like Kirk (he isn't in this reality either, he really just have this relationship with Uhura that they kept as a private thing for the most part) He really just never actually fell in love so he never had to deal with this kind of things. Hell, If i remember well Roddenberry said that young Spock had been a "bad guy" at the Academy where he had dated a lot of women it was in his character's background.
He had also wanted to end the show with Spock getting married.

But I think that nu!Spock himself got to the point in one lines from the ST2009 script:
to Spock prime: My future cannot be determined by your past. We are one, but not the same.

Their life is different and you can't expect them to act in the same exact way and make the same choices and have the same feelings when one, Spock prime, had never fallen in love with Uhura or anyone (he actually met her years later) he had never lost his world and his mother so young.
I don't believe in destiny. I do think that we have definite personality traits but we also are what life makes us. If alternative realities exist I'm sure that i'm not totally the same person in all of them if different events had happened to me in those other realities.
In the end, it's called alternative reality for a reason. You don't have to like it if you prefer the other Spock it's your prerogative but in terms of the story who is the "real" Spock and who is not is essentially relative.

... In particular they explain why I think nuSpock is far less likely to be "available" for a relationship with Uhura or any other woman.
I don't know what movie you watched but in the one that I watched and the script that I have read Spock does have a girlfriend. So, I guess, he had been "available" to her at one point and chose to have a relationship with this woman. Unless you think that Uhura forced him or did everything by herself (that is contradicted by the script and the writers that state the fact that they're in love and that she's his girlfriend. In the turbolift scene he did allow her to kiss him for this reason and he reciprocated the kiss. In the transport pad scene he was the one that initiated the kiss.
Uhura is not chapel.
Interesting enough the writers said that they had originally thought about a Spock/Chapel thing with her being hopelessly in love with him and him not giving her the time of the day. They changed their mind and made a totally different dynamic with Spock/Uhura because they wanted him to actually love the girl back and wanted to explore this new dynamic.

Last edited by Malaika; September 29 2012 at 10:02 AM.
Malaika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 10:19 AM   #171
Malaika
Lieutenant Commander
 
Malaika's Avatar
 
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Malaika wrote: View Post
I've read somewhere that both the comics and the novels are somehow canon because the writers ( Orci said it) need to approve them to a degree and the novels cannot have in them anything that the writers don't want them to have. I'd say it's a grey area between canon and non canon, they're still interesting though if you want to know how they got together.
They're not canon, Orci was pushed into saying they were by an interviewer a few weeks back, but retracted it very quickly in the comments section.

Bad Robot are just very protective of their universe (not that it helps, the first two Academy novels had a few contradicions that should have been easily spotted - in The Delta Anomaly, San Fransisco is a dangerous place with violent gangs, wheras in The Edge there is virtually no crime on Earth)
I went to the page where he talked about this and my take on what he said is that it's grey area between canon and not canon. On a general rule, only what is showed in the show or in this case the movies is canon.
He said that what they need to approve can be considered sort of canon but I think he didn't mean actually "canon" more something along the lines of "it's more canon than fanfiction because I have to approve them and they can't put things I don't want them to put there" but it's not canon as the people that watch the movie don't and shouldn't need to read the comics or the novels to understand what is happening there.
There is also the point about them putting clues about the sequel in the comics.
I think that while the novels and the comics aren't completely free to do what they want with the story and they can't contradict the movies (eg; Kirk and Spock can't absolutely meet each other prior the movie; they can't use new races or enemies that the movies writers may want to use for the sequels ), JJ, Orci and the others can do what they want with their story in the movies and they can contradict some of the things that the novels or the comics said or develop them differently (Benedict could still play Gary Mitchell no matter if the character was already used in the comics)
Malaika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 10:38 AM   #172
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Malaika wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post

How did I miss this gem
it was supposed to be a bit funny but really Uhura was never allowed to get a love interest in the show, Roddenberry had wanted to explore a relationship with Spock and her but he never could. Racism was so rampant that even the Kirk/Uhura kiss (that was supposed to be between Spock/Uhura originally ) had to happen while they were forced.
Young beautiful Uhura had to get ignored just because she was black and the actress had to endure a lot of racism from the network and production. It was already a miracle that she actual was in the show. She even thought about leaving it.
Of course the only time Uhura was ever allowed to get an actual love interest it had to happen in STV when she was old and of course it had to happen while she was under the influence of Syboc who essentially used her. So she almost seduced Scotty who was her friend and rejected her advantages. This is bad taste for me and a disservice for her character. Too little and too late and too forced. (not to mention the dancing scene that would have been bad even if she was young) and then I read people that justify that crap all the while they accuse JJ and their version of Uhura saying that she was sexualized or reduced to a love interest. Talk about irony here.
Not to mention the ones that make it seems that STV is more "canon" than ST2009 when Roddenberry himself despised that movie.
Again, no wonder why they completely dropped that romance subplot in the next movies, and yet some people make it seems that it was this oh so well developed love story and they recton TOS with imaginary scenes where Uhura wanted to sex up Scotty with her eyes
I've read people actually saying this kind of things, mainly slash Kirk/Spock fans though, even funnier when the same people that retcon the Scotty/Uhura interactions (?) from TOS are the ones that negate the Spock/Uhura flirting scenes. JJ had nothing to take inspiration from, apparently, while STV writers had all these hints of Uhura's hopeless love for Scotty you're just so blind if you don't notice their great love story in all those episodes and movies prior STV.
Firstly Uhura was 57 years old in ST:V if you go by Nichelle's age at the time, Scotty was no doubt quite a bit older. And you know if they want to get jiggy together in the Jefferies tubes that's their business. What the heck does their age have to do with it??

Secondly as far as the endless retconning of romances goes.. that's what fans do. Retcon and subtext the stories into pulp, sweet juicy pulp. We do it because it is FUN.

God knows I could subtext or slash anyone if I set my mind to it for 3 minutes. I even posted a J/C video one hormonal day. So I can speak from experience that there are no boundaries when it comes to fandom. My point is it doesn't matter what romances or trysts people like, there is no right or wrong to it. We have what see on the screen portrayed clearly and we have what we see in the subtext. Any kind of pairing will have people who like it and people who don't and that's all it comes down to--personal preference.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 10:45 AM   #173
Malaika
Lieutenant Commander
 
Malaika's Avatar
 
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post

... In particular they explain why I think nuSpock is far less likely to be "available" for a relationship with Uhura or any other woman.
And after watching the 2009 film, I would say that with the loss of his mother being so immediate and unexpected, it would be more likely that he would desire and be "available" (as far as needs go) for a relationship with Uhura or some other human woman even if he hadn't already been seeing her. There is the destruction of Vulcan, and like new Spock said, it's logical for him to help replenish the Vulcan population. That's where the Spock you've seen in TOS comes into play. Like the great old man said, "You can be in two places at once." He essentially freed new Spock of his "logical" burden, or obligation, to help his fellow Vulcans in that way.
and his father, his vulcan father, admitted that he had married his mother because he loved her. He essentially told Spock: see even I feel. It was an absolution and maybe even an advice. If Spock had already started a relationship with her when it was somehow "forbidden" why not continue it now that even his stoic father admitted that it's ok to love someone and being human.
Coincidentally, right after that scene you see Spock coming back to the group and remember when he said "my mother was human which makes earth the only home I have left"?
when I watched the movie the first time I could swear that he had looked at Uhura when he said that line.
Guess what? It wasn't just my impression

from the official script of the movie:
SPOCK (CONT'D) Also, my mother was human. Which makes Earth the only home I have left. 112 189 CONTINUED: (3) 189 The crew looks at this very courageous Vulcan with deep respect - - but his focus is on Uhura, whose eyes smile back at him.
I got the novelization and surprise, the same was said there too:

“And—my mother was human. Which makes Earth the only home I have left. So I have as much reason and rationale as anyone to want to risk my life in hope of preserving it.”
Everyone’s eyes remained on him, but his lingered only on Uhura’s. No one really noticed—except McCoy. As chief medical officer he was attuned to subtle aspects of crew performance that escaped his colleagues.
this is the scene:



after that you have the transport pad scene that speak for itself. There he definitely kissed Uhura back and according to both the script and the novel he initiated the kiss.
Oh and lets not forget the scene with Kirk when Spock asked "Jim" if he could give a message to Uhura in case he had died in the mission. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out what he intended to say.
When they get back safe and all the first thing he did was running to Uhura and they briefly touch hands.
Not to mention the meaningful look he gives her in the end when he gets aboard the enterprise and he passes her while getting to his station and Uhura's big smile can light up a house. In the commentary I remember the writers describing it as her being happy that her boyfriend was back just like in the "my mother was human" scene she was proud that her man came back to the crew.
Malaika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 11:05 AM   #174
Malaika
Lieutenant Commander
 
Malaika's Avatar
 
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

teacake wrote: View Post

Firstly Uhura was 57 years old in ST:V if you go by Nichelle's age at the time, Scotty was no doubt quite a bit older. And you know if they want to get jiggy together in the Jefferies tubes that's their business. What the heck does their age have to do with it??
I don't have a problem with older people acting like a couple and all. But Uhura is a touchy topic here since she was never allowed to get a love interest in the show and the only time she did it was "late" when perhaps the writers thought that it was "safer" and they didn't it to actually give her a love interest and do something good for her character or because they wanted to be progressive . But anyway my problem with Scotty/Uhura had everything to do with it coming out from nowhere since she had never showed any interest in him in TOS and the way it was developed (or better say not developed) with Syboc and all (forced, ruined by some outside influence). The fact that they also were old people is the last of my concerns and would be even less if their relationship had been hinted to in TOS. Point is that it wasn't organic with the show (and TFF is about the prime universe unlike ST2009 that is NOT) and it makes me smile a bit when people criticize nu!Spock/Uhura for the same reason all the while they justify Scotty/Uhura from TFF. Spock/Uhura not only had some hints in TOS but they actually are a couple IN THE ALTERNATIVE REALITY so, unlike Scotty/Uhura, it doesn't even matter what happened or not happened between them in the prime universe. It's a plus though that EVEN in the prime universe this relationship isn't so baseless compared to any other combination that the writers could come out with, they had something to take inspiration from at least (as Nichelle Nichols said).


Secondly as far as the endless retconning of romances goes.. that's what fans do. Retcon and subtext the stories into pulp, sweet juicy pulp. We do it because it is FUN.
No one is saying that you can't do that or that it isn't fun as long as you are avare that you're biased too or that other people can do the same if they want.
My comment is directed to the hypocrites that look down on other fans for liking the Spock/Uhura romance in ST2009 saying that it came out of nowhere, minimizing their scenes from TOS all the while they retcon other characters and relationships in the name of subtext. In short, according to these people you're crazy if you think that Spock/Uhura had potential in TOS because apparently even if she flirted with him you can't, no way no ever, think that she liked him that way. But of course it's totally legit for them to pretend that Uhura was totally in love with Scotty and looked at him with lust the whole time.
Also, difference between text and subtext: Uhura flirting with Spock is canon and is written in text.
If you can ship Scotty/Uhura or any other couple and base it on subtext (meaning what you want to see in the scene and not something that canon had actually established or implied) it's your right and option but then you can't bash other fans that do the same thing even less the Spock/Uhura supporters that talk about hints and scenes that actually happened and a couple that IS canon in the JJ's reality.
People ship all the kinds of crazy ships and it's fine.

Last edited by Malaika; September 29 2012 at 11:17 AM.
Malaika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 12:01 PM   #175
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

EDIT: deleted a bunch of crap because I suddenly remembered that I do not care.

As to TFF, it doesn't have to be a romance between those two, it could have just been a fling. "Old people" can be kind of pragmatic like that.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne

Last edited by teacake; September 29 2012 at 12:36 PM.
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 01:23 PM   #176
Malaika
Lieutenant Commander
 
Malaika's Avatar
 
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

UFO wrote: View Post
It’s sad that you attempted to sully my character without providing at least one legitimate example to back up your claim. That hardly seems fair. On the other hand, if you find something I will happily apologise and retract it (or perhaps explain why its not really a double standard if you haven't yet got a handle on that).
dear lord I'm doing it since the beginning of this Spock/Uhura vs Scotty/Uhura silly discussion and in one of her replies Spock/Uhura's fan seems to get from your posts (if i'm not mistaken) the same impression I got myself: your argument is contradictory.


Firstly, I did not say I thought anything happened between Uhura and Scotty before STV. It was speculation, so please don’t put words in my mouth or be so quick to jump to conclusions. Actually, I don’t think either relationship needs prior justifications or "hints". The only question for me is: When the shock wears off, does it make sense? Nothing prevented Scotty/Uhura from making sense at that time (STV). It even worked fairly well until that silly bit at the end. But, as mentioned above, Spock/Uhura is a different story. Other people may only be concerned with whether they like Spock and Uhura together. They may put believability in terms of TOS consistency, aside. I just don’t agree it’s a good idea to do that on this occasion.
thank you but that's what makes all of us, including you, biased. My point.
Nothing wrong about it. What may make sense or not sense for YOU won't necessarily make sense or not make sense for ME or other people. But you seem to believe that your opinion that one relationship makes sense while the other does not is a fact. One was necessary while the other is not and we shouldn't support it or we just fall in some marketing trap the writers created for us. That is more or less similar to the whole "pandering to the female fanbase" argument already made here, because you know women only care about romance no matter if it makes sense of not or ruins amazing characters .
Mind you, Spock had always been my favorite character. That I can appreciate Spock/Uhura and it makes sense to me perhaps shows that, for my perception of the character (and I'm not the only one), it isn't so far fetched like you make it seems that it is and you're trying to convince us that it is.
Scotty/Uhura: you're the one that chose to reply to that and include them in your argument and whatever you realize it or not it made your argument double standard.
The point: Like you can find Scotty/Uhura believable in the prime universe, other people may find the Spock/Uhura thing believable in AOS and possible in TOS (had the circumstances been different. That is what JJ is saying with his movie). And yet you seem to believe that Spock and Uhura fall under a different standard and different set of rules to follow and what you are free to do with Scotty/Uhura others can't do with Spock/Uhura even though they're actually canon in this verse and they, after all, actually had some hint of attraction even in TOS unlike Scotty/Uhura. Not to even mention the whole "nu"Spock is not available to Uhura" like if Uhura forced him into a relationship with her or the fans want to pair them up and ruin the Spock character because of reasons. Really, they already have a relationship and it wasn't one side for the ones that created it. No one says that you have to like it or it has to make sense for you but it seems to make sense for nu!Spock and the ST2009 writers, you know.
Spock giving a damn about Uhura or any other girl may not make sense to you but it doesn't mean that it never happened in the movie and we're inventing it for the sake of shipping them together.
It seems to me that you judge nu!Spock according to what you think he should feel or do according to you and how you want him to be rather than what the movie actually presented and what the fictional character actually feels.
I think that the same logic is used by those fans that insist blaming the whole relationship on Uhura only and are convinced that she forced him or did something that Spock didn't welcome/appreciate (one of those arguments was made in this thread too), no matter if the movie, the script and the writers said the opposite thing.



teacake wrote:
As to TFF, it doesn't have to be a romance between those two, it could have just been a fling. "Old people" can be kind of pragmatic like that.
I'm not disagreeing with you here.
I don't think that the movie portrayed them as a love story nor it implied that they had always been in love with each other in TOS. That it may been just a fling could be also confirmed by the simple fact that the romance subplot was completely ignored in the following movie and it seemed that they decided to remain friends like they had been before the whole thing with Syboc.
I just find it weird that they're now used in arguments against nu!Spock/Uhura as some sort of "proof" that JJ went against Gene Roddenberry's canon and Uhura's only true love from TOS
Neither were actually canon in TOS. Just like the writers of TFF had wanted to explore their couple without it having a solid base from TOS, JJ did the same thing (and he even had something to take inspiration from so why not? furthermore if you say why not to Scotty/Uhura even though no hint could be found in TOS).

Back on Uhura from TFF: personally, I always thought that under the influence of Syboc she simply expressed her regret for having always cared about her career only rather than actually expressing a romantic interest for Scotty. She would have said the same thing if Sulu or Chekov were in Scotty's place, Syboc simply took advantage of that and the fact that the crew members were more or less a family and everyone was friends with everyone.
All the members of the crew may had that regret at one point of their life.
Malaika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29 2012, 11:46 PM   #177
Soldier
Ensign
 
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

The practicalities:
Star Trek is a reboot yes but its also a prequel.a 2009 movie set in the 1950's on a TOS timescale.
When I first saw Spock and Uhura ,"gettin it on", my only thought was wth .
1.It was good movie watching taken on its own , but Ive seen all the original episodes a number of times and however you look at it there was never a strong connection between the two.
Even if Uhura did enjoy him pulling on his lyre in the rec room.
The pre part to that she describes him as having "satan's eyes,and the devil's ears", not exactly a rememberance of "young love"
Most of the time she found spock's vulcanism as amusing as anyone else.
Other terms of endearment
Spock:"I can think of no one else more competent to handle it Miss Uhura"

The situation you will have to look up for yourself but you would need a very active imagination to ascribe anything remotely near a previous love interest between Spock and Uhura from watching TOS .
Her love interest aside from the unshown in southern states "kirk kiss" did extend openly to hunky black males who appeared in episodes (which was probaly all that was allowed).

2.The movie she has the "hots" for him and its reciprocated and its the only "love story" in the film.
It may not have been a huge plot element, but its now "out there"and will have to be resolved..not happily.
Everything else,mostly, aside from some time paradoxes can be explained away/"suspension of belief" will work.

3. I dont mention the original ST I-VI movies because they are sequels to TOS and nothing in them adds anything to a young Spock/ Uhura relationship.Except possibly the "Genesis effect",(see below)

3.In the ST franchise , there havent been many/any long term/intense (boy/girl)relationships between regular cast members .
ST TNG had one.

4. The actor who plays the young Spock came out as "fully gay" in 2011. So what?..perhaps,Sulu/George Takei "married some guy in the 2000's", but for an audience paying/watching something and hoping to be entertained,all the close up shots of young spock n young uhura rotated to look more horizontal mambo are kinda wasted .

5.The way its played up to now,and the "cant be dismissed" affection between Spock and Uhura in the first reboot movie,I cant see soln's aside from

a.Another Genesis effect type Spock or Uhura rebirth..mind blank.
b."Lets do the time warp again",some time paradox that will erase/remove the memories of both of the "love thang".
c.The "pong far " and blood boiling may be introduced as a love wiping device?
d."I have been and allways shall nr..perhaps some platonic undertones introduced .. groan

Either way I cant see how the Spock/Uhura relationship can be continued.
Openly gay actor in a long term heterosexual franchise relationship just wouldbt wrk for me ,,sorry. if that sounds homophobic
Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30 2012, 12:12 AM   #178
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Soldier wrote: View Post
Other terms of endearment
Spock:"I can think of no one else more competent to handle it Miss Uhura"

The situation you will have to look up for yourself but you would need a very active imagination to ascribe anything remotely near a previous love interest between Spock and Uhura from watching TOS .
Spock: "And Lieutenant Uhura is unmatched in xenolinguistics, we would be wise to accept her conclusion."

Exactly the same quote from TOS and ST:XI.

This is Vulcan foreplay didn't you know?


Openly gay actor in a long term heterosexual franchise relationship just wouldbt wrk for me ,,sorry. if that sounds homophobic
Obviously you never watch any television or movies.

__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30 2012, 12:41 AM   #179
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Soldier wrote: View Post
Openly gay actor in a long term heterosexual franchise relationship just wouldbt wrk for me ,,sorry. if that sounds homophobic
Not homophobic, necessarily, but silly.

I mean, it's not like Zachary Quinto is actually half-Vulcan or has pointed ears either. He's an actor playing a role. In this case, a green-blooded, heterosexual Vulcan!

We're talking about Spock and Uhura here, not Quinto and Saldana.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30 2012, 12:43 AM   #180
serenitytrek1
Commander
 
Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Has it ever occurred to anyone the Spock will outlive Uhura...Spock can live up to 200 years...Uhura would be lucky to get to a 100.

so it is not really happily ever after....sigh
serenitytrek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
love story, pairings, spock/uhura, star trek 2009

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.