7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Serial thread killer]

I would have liked a scene with the doctor and Rory's dad.

[Takeru]

I didn't understand how the gravestone is supposed to make their deaths a fixed point in time, it's just a stone, how does it prove anything? For all we know Amy and Rory buried their poodle and wrote their own names on the grave because they saw the stone in the future.

It was a big mistake the show showed the Doctor dieing and kept yapping about how his death is a fixed point in time only to reveal that only the damn robot being shot and the Doctor giggling and waving inside it was the fixed point. How is the audience supposed to take the fixed point in time business serious if there's always a way to weasel your way out of it?

I'm not even sure what the big deal was at the end, the Winter Quay was destroyed and most angels killed by the paradox, right? The remaining angel couldn't send Rory and Amy to the creepy room of dieing alone, it had to use the regular method to dump them somewhere in the past where they just live their lives. River even meets them and gets Amy to write the afterword. If the Doctor can't go to New York Amy should have just written "Afterword: Dear Doctor, pick us up in Kansas City on April 4th, 1942. Bring a gravestone. Thanks. XOXO Amy and Rory!"

[Lonemagpie]

Just noticed that when the detective is got at the start on the rooftop, the typing reads "The Dying Detective" - a Holmes story. Wonder if it's a hint of one of next year's Sherlock episode sources?

[Mister Fandango]

Lonemagpie wrote:

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A couple of minor niggles - The Doctor says he can never take the TARDIS back to NY, then does so about 30 seconds later.

Except that's not what he said. He said he can't interfere with that particular snippet of the timeline again, because doing so would create a second paradox which would rip New York apart. And he was saying that while in NYC, which was more than clear in the episode.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I didn't think it was particularly emotional, but it was a fitting end for the Ponds, and a very effective horror/suspense story.

[Timelord_Victorious]

We are also nearing the end of River's life and I have to watch it again, to make sure if the Doctor realized it when she mentioned her pardon and that she is a Professor now.

Think she will get a farewell episode as well?

And I realize there is some clip where this is dealt with, but at this point it would be nice to get a "the last time they have an adventure together" episode. Just not so soon after the Pond's departure of course.

That said, I have yet to see their final date which is available on the DVD somewhere? Is that right?

[Pindar]

The baby angels were awesome, much creepier than the adult ones.

I think the season opener was the strongest this season, but I like that they tried something different showing how getting caught up with the Doctor screws your life up.

[Timelord_Victorious]

wamdue; wrote:

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So the paradox plays out, and we are back in the present, where Rory is again zapped back into the past, can the Angels feed on his life energy twice? Rory would not have had any energy to feed off, or was the first time paradoxed out of time, despite us seeing the grave at the start of the episode.

It's probably the same gravestone, but different circumstances of death. Think Back to the Future III where also just the inscription changed.

I also wondered if Angels can feed of a person twice and and thought that was the reason Rory was just displaced in space and not in time when the babies got him but apparently that is not the case.

That said, he is a time traveler AND "lived" out 2000 years before. He is probably juiced up with enoough time energy to give River and teh Doctor a run for their money.... well, maybe not the Doctor.

[The Mirrorball Man]

So... Just a thought... is it possible that Amy and Rory went back in time just to find little girl Melody wandering the streets of New York, adopted her and raised her as their own (which she is)?

[I am not Spock]

'The girl who waited'. Awesome!

Excellent episode. The best of this season so far. 'Asylum' and this one have been my faves so far.

I will miss Amy and Rory (especially the gorgeous Amy ), they were great companions, and had great chemistry with Matt. But it was a fitting end. They stayed together, they were happy. Technically, they died, but they weren't 'killed off'. They spent a lifetime together. As soon as I knew the Angels would be involved in their departure, I figured they'd be sent back in time somewhere.

The cherub angels were scary as hell, as was the statue of Liberty one.

The only thing I would have liked to see more of was interaction between River and her parents. I assume this is the last we'll see of River as well. Or maybe not

Top class episode. I'm sad to see Amy and Rory go, but this was a much better sequel to 'Blink' than the season 5 two parter.

[Dac]

I'm sorry, but I called every single point of this episode the second it was first announced, called the Statue of Liberty thing last week AND the emotional climax was ripped straight from Blink down to the dialogue. I mean seriously, it was a carbon copy of Blink.

Weak, weak stuff.

[Lonemagpie]

Also just realised on rewatch that a) River's wrist didn't have to get broken- all they *knew* from the book was that those two lines would be said, and b) fixed point my arse, the Doctor didn't break it anyway, she did it herself... All manner of outs!

[Mr. Adventure]

What I don't get is why did River write the book that way? Is she compelled to disclose the full and complete facts?

[The Mirrorball Man]

Dac wrote:

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I'm sorry, but I called every single point of this episode the second it was first announced, called the Statue of Liberty thing last week AND the emotional climax was ripped straight from Blink down to the dialogue. I mean seriously, it was a carbon copy of Blink.

Weak, weak stuff.

If you didn't enjoy it, you didn't enjoy it. But what does that have to do with your ability to call plot points in advance? I don't get it. It is fairly easy to write a totally unpredictable story, but do we really want that?

[Lonemagpie]

The scary thing is that if I'd written it, I'd have cut to the credits from the gravestone...

Lesley had tears. I think probably because of Rory's "don't I always" - which so far has also applied (twice!) to me...