TNG episodes that would've been interesting to see on TOS

[t_smitts]

Not sure why but I was thinking recently of how some TNG storylines would've worked on the original series and (effects aside) how well they would've turned out:

The Drumhead: Okay, the late 60's wasn't quite as paranoid as the early 50's had been, still a story of an accident turned witch-hunt would've been rather timely back then. It's hard to imagine an episode where Kirk doesn't get in a fist fight with someone. It might've been a bit harder to take that whole "the chain is forged" speech coming out of Shatner than Patrick Stewart. Satie would probably be a man, since most people probably wouldn't buy a female admiral (even one as sketchy as her). J'Dan would probably be some other species, and Simon Tarses' ancestry would probably be some other species (Klingon perhaps? The smooth foreheads make it doable).

The Wounded: I can only imagine what Cardassian prosthetics might've looked like, but the tensions between the Feds and an old enemy, plus a respected capain gone rogue could've worked. I could see Scotty in the O'Brien role, talking his old captain down.

Q Who and The Best of Both Worlds: Suppose Trelane or some other powerful being flung the Enterrpise towards that first cube? I would imagine the idea of some half man/half machine race coming to get you would've been just as unsettling in the 60's. Only thing is there'd be no character like Guinan to be familiar with them. As for the cliff hanger, could they have assimilated Kirk and had Spock give the order to fire? I can already imagine McCoy berating him for that. What if it were Spock, instead and Kirk had to give that order, hmmm? Only thing is I can't, for the life of me, picture a character like Shelby on the original series. (Oh, and no Data might complicate things, unless Spock did a mind meld).

Any others?

[BillJ]

The action-adventure ones would obviously translate more easily to TOS. Three come immediately to mind for me Lonely Among Us, Where Silence Has Lease and The Ensigns of Command.

Of course, Lonely... already has some TOS elements with the battling delegates being ferried to a diplomatic conference.

As an aside, I always thought the Voyager episode The Thaw would've made a great TOS episode.

[t_smitts]

BillJ wrote:

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The action-adventure ones would obviously translate more easily to TOS. Three come immediately to mind for me Lonely Among Us, Where Silence Has Lease and The Ensigns of Command.

Of course, Lonely... already has some TOS elements with the battling delegates being ferried to a diplomatic conference.

As an aside, I always thought the Voyager episode The Thaw would've made a great TOS episode.

I wonder if virtual reality would've been beyond the comprehension of 1960's audeinces. Also given the importance the Doctor played in the episode, I wonder how that would work.

Starship Mine is another that would've worked well. That has Kirk written all over it.

[Admiral_Sisko]

t_smitts wrote:

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The Drumhead: Okay, the late 60's wasn't quite as paranoid as the early 50's had been, still a story of an accident turned witch-hunt would've been rather timely back then. It's hard to imagine an episode where Kirk doesn't get in a fist fight with someone. It might've been a bit harder to take that whole "the chain is forged" speech coming out of Shatner than Patrick Stewart. Satie would probably be a man, since most people probably wouldn't buy a female admiral (even one as sketchy as her). J'Dan would probably be some other species, and Simon Tarses' ancestry would probably be some other species (Klingon perhaps? The smooth foreheads make it doable).

I actually think it would have been interesting with Spock in the role of Picard, as opposed to Kirk. Perhaps the visiting admiral could pit Kirk and Spock against each other, with Kirk representing the prosecution, and Spock, the defense. I have no problem with Tarses' ancestry remaining Romulan, as it may provide motivation for Spock to defend him. Additionally, I think Chekov would have functioned well in Worf's place as the overzealous officer determined to find the conspiracy aboard the Enterprise.

t_smitts wrote:

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The Wounded: I can only imagine what Cardassian prosthetics might've looked like, but the tensions between the Feds and an old enemy, plus a respected captain gone rogue could've worked. I could see Scotty in the O'Brien role, talking his old captain down.

Agreed, though I don't know if the Cardassians would make sense as the race in question. Given the history between Earth and Romulus, maybe this would have been another opportunity to include them.

t_smitts wrote:

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Q Who and The Best of Both Worlds: Suppose Trelane or some other powerful being flung the Enterrpise towards that first cube? I would imagine the idea of some half man/half machine race coming to get you would've been just as unsettling in the 60's. Only thing is there'd be no character like Guinan to be familiar with them. As for the cliff hanger, could they have assimilated Kirk and had Spock give the order to fire? I can already imagine McCoy berating him for that. What if it were Spock, instead and Kirk had to give that order, hmmm? Only thing is I can't, for the life of me, picture a character like Shelby on the original series. (Oh, and no Data might complicate things, unless Spock did a mind meld).

You should read my thread about this, as I asked what Spock may have done in Riker's place had Kirk been captured by the Borg. Interesting enough, I don't know if it makes more sense for McCoy to berate Spock for firing on the Borg cube, or if he would be better suited for playing the Guinan role in this situation. I can easily envision a scene in which Spock wanders into Kirk's empty quarters and stairs at his chair, asking, "What would do you do, Jim?"

I don't know that a character like Shelby would have been necessary, as there was never a push (either on or off screen) for Spock to have his own command, but if the inclusion of an outsider were needed, I actually think this would have been a convenient time to introduce Willard Decker, as he would have been at least a lieutenant commander by the time The Original Series aired. Ironically, perhaps Decker's actions in helping to protect the Enterprise would have served as incentive for Kirk to recommend him as his replacement prior to The Motion Picture.

Other episodes that may have worked include "The Defector," "Family," "Sins of the Father" (with a Vulcan theme), "Redemption" (also with a Vulcan theme), "Face of the Enemy" (Uhura on a Klingon ship, perhaps), "Captain's Holiday," "The Price," (Cyrano Jones is stranded in the Delta Quadrant), "A Matter of Time," "Disaster," "The Chase," "Starship Mine," "The Inner Light" (though I like the idea of Spock in Picard's place), and "The Pegasus" (perhaps with Sulu in Riker's place).

[Captain McBain]

Justice. Would the Edo god have allowed Kirk to mess around with its female 'children?'

[t_smitts]

Admiral_Sisko wrote:

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I actually think it would have been interesting with Spock in the role of Picard, as opposed to Kirk. Perhaps the visiting admiral could pit Kirk and Spock against each other, with Kirk representing the prosecution, and Spock, the defense. I have no problem with Tarses' ancestry remaining Romulan, as it may provide motivation for Spock to defend him. Additionally, I think Chekov would have functioned well in Worf's place as the overzealous officer determined to find the conspiracy aboard the Enterprise.

Agreed, though I don't know if the Cardassians would make sense as the race in question. Given the history between Earth and Romulus, maybe this would have been another opportunity to include them.

You should read my thread about this, as I asked what Spock may have done in Riker's place had Kirk been captured by the Borg. Interesting enough, I don't know if it makes more sense for McCoy to berate Spock for firing on the Borg cube, or if he would be better suited for playing the Guinan role in this situation. I can easily envision a scene in which Spock wanders into Kirk's empty quarters and stairs at his chair, asking, "What would do you do, Jim?"

I don't know that a character like Shelby would have been necessary, as there was never a push (either on or off screen) for Spock to have his own command, but if the inclusion of an outsider were needed, I actually think this would have been a convenient time to introduce Willard Decker, as he would have been at least a lieutenant commander by the time The Original Series aired. Ironically, perhaps Decker's actions in helping to protect the Enterprise would have served as incentive for Kirk to recommend him as his replacement prior to The Motion Picture.

Other episodes that may have worked include "The Defector," "Family," "Sins of the Father" (with a Vulcan theme), "Redemption" (also with a Vulcan theme), "Face of the Enemy" (Uhura on a Klingon ship, perhaps), "Captain's Holiday," "The Price," (Cyrano Jones is stranded in the Delta Quadrant), "A Matter of Time," "Disaster," "The Chase," "Starship Mine," "The Inner Light" (though I like the idea of Spock in Picard's place), and "The Pegasus" (perhaps with Sulu in Riker's place).

-Regarding the Drumhead, I don't know if I'd want to see Kirk and Spock against each other. Seeing Kirk brought to trial in a which hunt and giving that speech is intruiging, given there was still some of the Cold War paranoia that had led to McCarthyism just over a decade earlier. Not sure what past events they might reference that would be a "low blow", analagous to Satie bringing up Picard's ordeal with the Borg.

I was thinking about "Captain's Holiday", but decided against it. Now the show never did anything as radical as sending Kirk off on vacation, but that's not why. The fundamental difference is that Picard was a reluctant participant in the storyline, whereas Kirk would've jumped in with both feet and bedded Vash before the first act.

-I don't think "Disaster" as it was, would've worked, because A) No kids on Kirk's Enterprise B) No android with a removable head, and C) No way is there enough budget to show people in the shuttlebay, let alone a fire in it. That being said, the core premise of the ship being crippled in some accident and the crew coping in various areas could've been done. (DS9 basically did it too with "Starship Down").

-I'm sure something like "The Chase" would've outraged religious types.

-Given that neither Sulu, nor Uhura (or Chekov, for that matter) were the focus of an episode, it's hard to imagine them getting one.

-The Defector could work with a good actor. Could work wth Klingons or Romulans. Only problem is, I don't know what Kirk's ace in the hole would be. (No Klingon allies!)

-Not sure the Romulans would work for "The Wounded", since it theirs was a slightly different relationship with the Feds: Isolated by a buffer of space, rather than an uneasy peace. And if it was the Romulans, Starfleet would look pretty silly for not believing Maxwell, considerig they did attack in "Balance of Terror".

[Wingsley]

I like to think that TNG's "The Survivors" actually spoke in a decidedly TOS tone. That show was strongly reminiscent of TOS. To an extent, so did "Where Silence Has Lease" (written by Jack Sowards, who I believe was involved in TMP2) and also "Up the Long Ladder", "The Enemy", "The Defector" and "First Contact", as well as DS9's "The Search" two-parter.

The ultimate retcon job would be to imagine "Yesterday's Enterprise", very patently a TNG story, as a TOS story. While it might be interesting to imagine an earlier Starship Enterprise (maybe Archer's NX-01?), it would work to see any early Federation Starship (maybe the Valiant?) accidentally skipping forward in time and altering history in the process. Imagine if the fifty-year-old U.S.S. Valiant had not been destroyed at Eminiar VII, but instead the intensity of the battle in the Eminiar system accidentally threw the Valiant forward in time... into either Klingon or Romulan space... triggering a major incident. If the Valiant wouldn't work, it might be interesting to see an older, prototype Enterprise, NX-1701, having been called into service for either the Battle of Axanar or the Battle of Donatu V, and the battle's energy expenditure threw the Enterrpise's older self forward... to meet either an Enterprise-A or Kirk commanding some other Connie on behalf of some beleaguered, diminished Federation whose members are at odds with each other.

(A thought just occurred to me: the earlier NX-1701 Enterprise could have been thrown forward minimally damaged, only to encounter and rescue the Valiant-A, a Coalition of Planets starship commanded by Spock, himself a Coalition flag officer with a human XO named Kirk. Spock is concerned about fleet maneuvers to head off a Romulan invasion, when the early-Enterprise suddenly flies in from Klingon space after riling the Klingons. Now Captain Robert April must decide if his duty is to report to Spock and help repel the invasion, or to go back in time to face the Eminian music and probably die.

[Admiral_Sisko]

t_smitts wrote:

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-Regarding the Drumhead, I don't know if I'd want to see Kirk and Spock against each other. Seeing Kirk brought to trial in a which hunt and giving that speech is intruiging, given there was still some of the Cold War paranoia that had led to McCarthyism just over a decade earlier. Not sure what past events they might reference that would be a "low blow", analagous to Satie bringing up Picard's ordeal with the Borg.

I agree that it would be difficult to find something in Kirk's past as painful as Picard's experience with the Borg, unless of course "The Best of Both Worlds" really did happen in The Original Series timeline as we're speculating. Short of that scenario, I could see someone bringing up Kirk's failure to destroy the cloud creature that killed most of the USS Farragut's crew, the events of "Court Martial," his involvement in Gary Mitchel's death, etc. These don't quite compare to assimilation, but they were difficult experiences for Kirk, and may suffice.

t_smitts wrote:

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I was thinking about "Captain's Holiday", but decided against it. Now the show never did anything as radical as sending Kirk off on vacation, but that's not why. The fundamental difference is that Picard was a reluctant participant in the storyline, whereas Kirk would've jumped in with both feet and bedded Vash before the first act.

Suppose the episode featured McCoy instead of Kirk. I wonder if that would better, given McCoy's tendency toward grumpiness.

t_smitts wrote:

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I don't think "Disaster" as it was, would've worked, because A) No kids on Kirk's Enterprise B) No android with a removable head, and C) No way is there enough budget to show people in the shuttlebay, let alone a fire in it. That being said, the core premise of the ship being crippled in some accident and the crew coping in various areas could've been done. (DS9 basically did it too with "Starship Down").

Agreed. I think "Disaster" would have to be different for each of the reasons you mentioned, but a similar episode is feasible.

t_smitts wrote:

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-The Defector could work with a good actor. Could work wth Klingons or Romulans. Only problem is, I don't know what Kirk's ace in the hole would be. (No Klingon allies!)

I struggled with that, as well. I suppose a means to hide Federation vessels in the vicinity of the Enterprise could have been devised. Perhaps this episode could have occurred as a follow-up to the events of "The Enterprise Incident," as we never saw the fate of the Romulan Commander on screen, nor do we know what happened to the cloaking device.

The cloak could have been adapted for use on a Federation ship, with Charvanek as its captain (the idea being that the title of "The Defector" would have a double-meaning, as Charvanek would be revealed as having defected to the Federation following "The Enterprise Incident"). Given Spock's relationship with her, it's not hard to imagine that she would be willing to aid the Enterprise against a group of Klingons, an essential reversal of the scenario seen in TNG.

[Wingsley]

Ooops! I got my plots mixed up. If the time-travelled ship were Captain April's prototype NX-1701 Enterprise, then the battle that threw him forward would have to be either the Battle of Donatu V or the Battle of Axanar; if he found that the loss of his ship (mysteriously disappearing from the battle in the Valiant-A's records) left Fleet Captain Garth's prototype Constitution vulnerable to two Klingon D-5 cruisers, and if he looks around and sees the loss of those prototypes stagnated the fleet and that the newer ships are essentially just jerry-rigged copies over twenty years later, he and his XO must conclude that with the Coalition in chaos and the situation hopeless they are better off going back and taking a stand with Garth to hopefully change history.

[t_smitts]

Wingsley wrote:

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I like to think that TNG's "The Survivors" actually spoke in a decidedly TOS tone. That show was strongly reminiscent of TOS. To an extent, so did "Where Silence Has Lease" (written by Jack Sowards, who I believe was involved in TMP2) and also "Up the Long Ladder", "The Enemy", "The Defector" and "First Contact", as well as DS9's "The Search" two-parter.

The ultimate retcon job would be to imagine "Yesterday's Enterprise", very patently a TNG story, as a TOS story. While it might be interesting to imagine an earlier Starship Enterprise (maybe Archer's NX-01?), it would work to see any early Federation Starship (maybe the Valiant?) accidentally skipping forward in time and altering history in the process. Imagine if the fifty-year-old U.S.S. Valiant had not been destroyed at Eminiar VII, but instead the intensity of the battle in the Eminiar system accidentally threw the Valiant forward in time... into either Klingon or Romulan space... triggering a major incident. If the Valiant wouldn't work, it might be interesting to see an older, prototype Enterprise, NX-1701, having been called into service for either the Battle of Axanar or the Battle of Donatu V, and the battle's energy expenditure threw the Enterrpise's older self forward... to meet either an Enterprise-A or Kirk commanding some other Connie on behalf of some beleaguered, diminished Federation whose members are at odds with each other.

(A thought just occurred to me: the earlier NX-1701 Enterprise could have been thrown forward minimally damaged, only to encounter and rescue the Valiant-A, a Coalition of Planets starship commanded by Spock, himself a Coalition flag officer with a human XO named Kirk. Spock is concerned about fleet maneuvers to head off a Romulan invasion, when the early-Enterprise suddenly flies in from Klingon space after riling the Klingons. Now Captain Robert April must decide if his duty is to report to Spock and help repel the invasion, or to go back in time to face the Eminian music and probably die.

The Yesterday's Enterprise stuff sounds kind of convoluted, but The Survivors would indeed fit in on TOS nicely. Would've been neat for them to find some old-time actor to deliver Kevin Uxbridge's haunting confession.

One wonders if they could've done a show like Cause and Effect. You just know the Enterprise blowing up in the teaser would've shocked the hell out of a 60's audience. I wonder what their idea of a Starfleet ship a century older than the Constitution class would look like. (Notice I was careful not to say a 22nd Century ship, since they never did peg down the century on the original series. I believe as late as the writer's bible for the Star Trek II series, they were being intentionally vague). Would've been neat if they could've gotten a well-known actor from some popular show on at the time to cameo as the captain of the other ship, as Kelsey Grammer did.

Conundrum is another one that I think would've worked.

Half of The Enemy might work, with someone like Scotty stranded on a hostile planet, forced to work with together. (Actually, a movie called "Hell in the Pacific", which came out in 1968, dealt with a very similar scenario). With the Worf giving blood part, however, I can't think of anyone on the show that could assume that role.

The Royale might've been doable. I could see Kirk reading Col. Richey's final log. Would've loved to see Spock clean out the casino.

Darmok DEFINITELY would work!

It's hard to imagine Kirk not hooking up with Kamala (or her liking who she is around him, as she did with Picard), so The Perfect Mate probably wouldn't work.

I wasn't particularly a fan of Up the Long Ladder

[Maurice]

Who Watches the Watchers would totally work
Yesterday's Enterprise, but the twist being that in the altered timeline Pike is still in command, and decides to let history get restored even after getting a hint that he'll end up horribly crippled in the other timeline.

[Admiral_Sisko]

t_smitts wrote:

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One wonders if they could've done a show like Cause and Effect. You just know the Enterprise blowing up in the teaser would've shocked the hell out of a 60's audience. I wonder what their idea of a Starfleet ship a century older than the Constitution class would look like. (Notice I was careful not to say a 22nd Century ship, since they never did peg down the century on the original series. I believe as late as the writer's bible for the Star Trek II series, they were being intentionally vague). Would've been neat if they could've gotten a well-known actor from some popular show on at the time to cameo as the captain of the other ship, as Kelsey Grammer did.

Agreed. "Cause and Effect" would have been interesting, although I'm not sure how they would have been able to send a message into subsequent loops as the Enterprise-D crew did. Perhaps Spock would have found a way to use the Vulcan mind-meld to accomplish this.

t_smitts wrote:

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Conundrum is another one that I think would've worked.

Agreed.

t_smitts wrote:

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The Royale might've been doable. I could see Kirk reading Col. Richey's final log. Would've loved to see Spock clean out the casino.

I thought about this episode, as well. One thing that I wonder about is whether the audience would have reacted the same way to seeing Enterprise crew members thrown into another historical era, particularly one so recent, as less time had passed since people lived that way.

t_smitts wrote:

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Darmok DEFINITELY would work!

"Darmok" would have been great.

Another episode that I thought about was "Future Imperfect." Imagine Kirk waking up sixteen years into the future, just as Riker did, in the opening teaser. I could easily see a 1960s audience glued to a plot like that, as it would have reminded them of The Twilight Zone.

In this "Future Imperfect," Kirk has remained captain of the Enterprise, and Spock has since been given a command of his own. Sulu is now Kirk's executive officer. McCoy and Scott are still aboard, as is Chevkov. Uhura has accepted a position aboard Spock's vessel. There have been other changes aboard the Enterprise, too. The new science officer is Andorian, and the communications officer, Romulan.

Spock's vessel meets Kirk's at a designated rendez-vous point. Spock and Uhura beam to the Enterprise, where they are relieved to find Kirk is recovering. They are joined by one other person- Kor- who is now a Klingon Ambassador to the Federation. Kirk bristles at the notion of peace with the Klingons (similar to his reaction in The Undiscovered Country), only to be reassured by Spock that Kirk himself is the man most directly responsible for the peace treaty that's on the verge of being signed.

As there weren't children on the Enterprise, it would have been difficult to justify having a child aboard as Riker did, but perhaps Kirk could have discovered pictures of his son in his quarters, as well as pictures of his wife- who looks exactly like Edith Keeler.

How to work out the illusion-within-illusion would have been difficult with no holodeck, but I think I have solution. Once Kirk realizes that he's in the midst of an illusion, perhaps the scene dissolves to resemble the holding cells on Talos IV. It is there that Kirk discovers a small child who resembles his fictional son and attempts to help him escape.

His "son" mistakenly comments about Spock having been the captain of the another vessel, which Kirk knows has never happened. It is then that the audience finally learns the truth, that the boy is a member of alien race similar to Barash's people. Kirk agrees to take him back to the Enterprise, so that he doesn't have continue living life alone.

[T'Girl]

Setting the hotel in The Royale as being in New Orleans pre-civil war might have worked nicely.

Kirk's personality would have been perfect for Starship Mine. But no saddle please.

Skin of Evil would have fit, good and evil. They could have inserted Yeoman Rand into the Tasha Yar role. Maybe around the time she left the show anyway.

The Arsenal Of Freedom as a commentary on the sixies arms race and the cold war. Probably have worked better in the sixies.

Anything featuring the holodeck would pretty much have to be out. Data heavy episodes out too. Children on the Enterprise gone too. Please no Q stories. All the Worf stories, unless rewritten extensively.

Remember Me, with McCoy in the lead, but no input by Wesley or the Traveler.

Ensign Ro almost word for word. No reason not to introduce a species somewhat like the Cardassians, with less make-up. Your basic space Nazi's.

it's difficult to see them doing The Outcast.

[t_smitts]

Besides episodes in general, I think it would've been interesting to see Data just in general on the show: An other-worldly character like Spock, yet much more innocent.

I think Kirk would've been won over (as Riker was) the moment Data candidly said "I am superior in many ways, but I would gladly give them up to be human." McCoy might be a bit more skeptical of this walking, talking machine, yet soon grow to like him more than he tended to admit.

(And if anyone thinks they're clever enough to make a joke that Kirk would just cause him to self-destruct, don't bother. )

[Tiberius]

BillJ wrote:

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The action-adventure ones would obviously translate more easily to TOS. Three come immediately to mind for me Lonely Among Us, Where Silence Has Lease and The Ensigns of Command.

Of course, Lonely... already has some TOS elements with the battling delegates being ferried to a diplomatic conference.

As an aside, I always thought the Voyager episode The Thaw would've made a great TOS episode.

How would that work, without the holographic technology of the Doctor?

I've always thought that the Voyager episode "Riddles" would have made an excellent episode of Classic Trek.