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Old September 28 2012, 03:08 PM   #16
Shazam!
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

PsychoPere wrote: View Post
many of them may not have been all that knowledgeable about recent galactic history.
Indeed. In real life many people aren't knowledgeable about recent global history.
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Old September 28 2012, 09:51 PM   #17
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

20 years ago Europe was full of magicians who could make shit float or blow up with their minds?

I could imagine after a hundred years that stuff like this might be brushed under the carpet, but it seems that it's possible that in 1976 when George was doing the final edit on his script for Star Wars that he hadn't even started on the first draft for Revenge of the Sith.
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Old September 29 2012, 01:24 AM   #18
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

It wasn't full of. The entire galaxy seemed to have less than 100 of them, most of whom seemed to stay on Coruscant. 100 isn't "full" when you're talking about a planet, not to mention thousands of them.
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Old September 29 2012, 03:06 AM   #19
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

I believe at the time of the Prequels there were 1,000 Jedi, and then there were 100 Jedi at the time of New Jedi Order.
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Old September 29 2012, 04:39 AM   #20
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

The TPM novel says there's 10,000. But then the AOTC novel says there's 9,000. So either 1000 died between 32 BBY and 22 BBY or someone's wrong.
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Old September 29 2012, 05:15 AM   #21
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Jedi Knights are in short order who hunt Sith... But in the middle of that spectrum there must of been hundreds of thousands of untrained force users that didn't undertand who they were doing what they were doing or the consequences.
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Old September 29 2012, 08:24 AM   #22
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

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I always took it that Skywalker knew that there was a Sith operating somewhere in the Republic, but didn't know (or rather, didn't believe) that it was the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic until Palpatine all but actually told him. One of the things repeated during the prequel was that the Dark Side was hard to see unless it was pretty much smacking you in the face. As powerful with the Force as Skywalker was, he still couldn't divine the truth about Palpatine being Darth Sidious any more than the other Jedi Masters could, IMO.
Yes, because the Force is the only means of figuring things out...

(Sure, this is Skywalker we're talking about and common sense is a nonexistent concept regarding that bloodline, but the point remains.)
Given that there are likely plenty of corrupt politicians who aren't Sith, the idea that Palpatine was one really had to be confirmed before any action could be taken. As far as the Jedi knew, Dooku could have easily been lying to Obi-Wan about Palpatine in the hopes that the Jedi would arrest or take down someone who really wasn't a Sith and throw the Republic into chaos at a time when it needed to be stable the most.

It was ironically Skywalker--Palpatine's BFF and the one least likely to say anything negative about him--that convinced Windu that maybe Dooku wasn't lying after all, but he still had to confirm it himself.
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Old September 29 2012, 02:21 PM   #23
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

As Mace put it in the ROTS novelization, "The only reason Palpatine himself isn't a suspect is because he already rules the galaxy." And he had been for over a dozen years at that point. Given the history of previous Sith Lords (Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Darth Revan, Lord Kaan), they figured if Palpatine was a Sith, he would have lost patience/subtlety and tried to make a move to seize total control years ago. He was essentially FDR circa 1945 (minus the annoying cerebral hemorrage) at this point as far as the galaxy was concerned. What they were suspecting by the early part of ROTS was that Palpatine had been in office too long, gotten too used to the trappings of power, and was starting to look at ways to stay in power permanently while keeping the Jedi and Senate in check. IF there was a Darth Sidious around, he could be acting as Palpatine's Karl Rove/Valerie Jarrett.

They didn't WANT to believe that a Sith Lord could have been running the Republic for years right under their noses. It was simply unthinkable.
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Old September 29 2012, 02:40 PM   #24
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
The TPM novel says there's 10,000. But then the AOTC novel says there's 9,000. So either 1000 died between 32 BBY and 22 BBY or someone's wrong.
Did they ever say anything on screen? I know Star Wars isn't like Star Trek, but, at the same time, I haven't read the novels so I'm wondering if there's anything I missed.

You still get the impression that most people don't see Jedi all that often.
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Old September 29 2012, 03:13 PM   #25
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Even though the propaganda machine must have been spinning bullshit something fierce to justify the public executions and hunting of the Jedi. And you know what they say, any publicity is good publicity.
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Old September 29 2012, 03:36 PM   #26
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
20 years ago Europe was full of magicians who could make shit float or blow up with their minds?
No, I think what you're asking here is for people in Kenya to have a working knowledge of what happened to the Washington branch of the Freemasons in the 1980's. Some details might get a little sketchy over time.
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Old September 29 2012, 03:58 PM   #27
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

they were the generals of the clone wars that ripped up every planet in the galaxy after they kept the peace for 10,000 years...

Clones vs Droids.

Like "real" people gave a shit.
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Old September 29 2012, 10:25 PM   #28
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

C. E. Evans wrote:
As far as the Jedi knew, Dooku could have easily been lying to Obi-Wan about Palpatine
Dooku didn't say anything about Palpatine, just that a Sith Lord was influencing the Senate. To see this as a reference to Palpatine is hindsight; the Jedi wouldn't be expected to take it that way.

Alidar Jarok wrote:
You still get the impression that most people don't see Jedi all that often.
Well, they wouldn't; given the surely vast number of people in the galaxy, 10,000 would be a relatively tiny amount.

Guy Gardener wrote:
didn't undertand who they were doing
We've all been there, haven't we?
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Old September 29 2012, 11:57 PM   #29
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
C. E. Evans wrote:
As far as the Jedi knew, Dooku could have easily been lying to Obi-Wan about Palpatine
Dooku didn't say anything about Palpatine, just that a Sith Lord was influencing the Senate. To see this as a reference to Palpatine is hindsight; the Jedi wouldn't be expected to take it that way.
Dooku said that the Republic was under the control of the Sith. Well, if Palpatine was in control of the Republic, I think he would at least be a suspect if Obi-Wan took his words seriously.
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Old September 30 2012, 12:41 AM   #30
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Re: Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Set Harth wrote: View Post

Guy Gardener wrote:
didn't understand who they were doing
We've all been there, haven't we?
Only when I open my eyes.
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