RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,782
Posts: 5,217,365
Members: 24,217
Currently online: 731
Newest member: davestar057

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Sports and Fitness

Sports and Fitness It's football, not soccer.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old September 28 2012, 12:43 AM   #301
Ar-Pharazon
Rear Admiral
 
Ar-Pharazon's Avatar
 
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

Aragorn wrote: View Post
Jim McMahon is suffering from early-stage dementia at the age of 53 and says if he had to do it over again, he'd choose baseball.

That sounds exactly like something McMahon would say. I hope he can get some help, medical and the financial help those players are after.

Though in the end, did the NFL really hide information about concussions or did they just not know the full deal?
__________________
Rimmer, on what period of history to live in-
“Well, It’d be the 19th century for me, one of Napoleon’s marshals.
The chance to march across Europe with the greatest general of all time and kill Belgians” - (White Hole).
Ar-Pharazon is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 01:44 AM   #302
Gil T.Azell
Rear Admiral
 
Gil T.Azell's Avatar
 
Location: On the Left Coast
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

The picture and statement were sent to me by a co-worker who coached football.
This angle clearly shows Tate clearly has control as his feet touches and Jennings is in the air. 'Control' doesn't have anything to do with how many hands or who had hands on it first, its ALL who has control when the ball is dead, ie: when any player is two feet down. Simultaneous catch has just occurred. This is in no way an interception.
Touchdown Seahawks is absolutely the correct call, according to the rulebook, no matter what it looked like and its totally irrelevant that jennings was higher or had two hands on it first. Its also irrelevant that Tate had just shoved away another Packer, as pass interference on either side is never, has never and will never been called on a hail mary. The real refs would have called this whole sequence exactly the same.

The Packers did not get 'robbed'.


He's a Saints fan, but not a Green Bay or Seattle hater.
__________________
When you walk into a building soaking wet and someone asks you if it is raining then just smile and answer:"No, I just took my fish for a walk!"
Gil T.Azell is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 03:30 AM   #303
Yoda
Rear Admiral
 
Yoda's Avatar
 
Location: San Diego
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

^Sorry. Let's think about this. He can't even keep his nonsensical analysis internally consistent. So, he says you need to have both feet down in order to have control. This is of course wrong and he is conflating the concepts of control and possession. But think about it, if Tate gets control by having both feet down first, why is your friend still calling it simultaneous possession? By his misapplied criteria it would just be Tate, no simultaneous possession ruling would apply, and it's a clear cut touchdown. How seriously can you take someone who can't even follow the rules that he just completely made up?

Back to control vs possession for a sec. Think about every 'going to the ground' call ever... Because that illustrates the concept very clearly. "The receiver failed to maintain control all the way to the ground therefore the pass is incomplete." A complete catch results in possession. An incomplete pass does not. An incomplete pass can and often consists of a player having control but not possession. A pass can be incomplete even if the receiver maintains control the whole time if he lands out of bounds. Control and possession are not the same thing. Read the applicable rules with that in mind, you can't defend the nonsense you parroted here.

And pass interference doesn't apply on hail marys? C'mon man. That's just stupid. What else can you really say?

This Deadspin article is speaking about people like your friend.

Here is an in-depth explanation about why the call was completely incorrect courtesy of PFT. The situation that happened is specifically mentioned in the rules and referee casebook on how to apply said rules.

The real refs discussed the call and application of a rule as part of their 'stay sharp' conferences they were holding during their lockout. You can read about that here.

If you can refute any of that, please do.
__________________
Yoda is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 08:15 AM   #304
tighr
Commodore
 
tighr's Avatar
 
Location: California
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

If you showed me that picture, completely out of context and without knowledge of when or where it takes place, I couldn't even tell you that there is a ball in the picture. I simply cannot see a football, either in part or in whole. I have no way of knowing whether or not Tate possesses the football in that picture, because I can't see a fucking football.
__________________
~Tighr™: Not helping the situation since 1983
tighr is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 01:15 PM   #305
Timby
I AM the League of Mallows...
 
Timby's Avatar
 
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

tighr wrote: View Post
I would be royally pissed if they actually took our pensions away (I don't know that they are legally able to do that).
They are not. By definition, pensions are deferred compensation -- you've already earned the money, it just isn't being paid out to you until a later date. If your employer decided to take away or otherwise cancel your pension, you'd have grounds to sue them into the next century.
__________________
When Gozer the Gozerian roams the earth ... you have my permission to die.
Timby is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 01:39 PM   #306
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Arlington, VA
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

Timby wrote: View Post
Pegaritaville wrote: View Post
Sounds like the new agreement gives the refs pretty much what they were asking for.
Almost, but not quite. The NFL now has the power to hire officials (the number of which can be determined by the league) on a full-time basis, meaning said officials would have to give up their second jobs. Also, any new officials will not be eligible for pensions, but rather will have 401(k) plans, and existing officials only have until 2016 to accrue service time towards their pensions. That last part means the NFLRA made a deal that helps its existing members, but gives a shitty hand to future members (not unlike the new MLB CBA).
Although they at least got a pay raise to compensate for this.

I don't personally have a problem with making them full-time employees. They get paid well enough to be one.
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 05:10 PM   #307
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Just saw the news Steve Sabol passed.

I watched his show every week when I was a kid. A truly great talent and worth every one of those Emmys.

He will be missed.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 07:42 PM   #308
Skywalker
Admiral
 
Skywalker's Avatar
 
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

What exactly will full-time NFL referees do during the offseason? I feel dumb for asking that, but I'm drawing a blank.
Skywalker is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 08:15 PM   #309
gblews
Rear Admiral
 
gblews's Avatar
 
Location: So. Cal.
View gblews's Twitter Profile
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
Aragorn wrote: View Post
Jim McMahon is suffering from early-stage dementia at the age of 53 and says if he had to do it over again, he'd choose baseball.

That sounds exactly like something McMahon would say. I hope he can get some help, medical and the financial help those players are after.

Though in the end, did the NFL really hide information about concussions or did they just not know the full deal?
McMahon's life doesn't sound bad to me. Sounds like he is doing pretty well finacially. Who knows about his so called dementia.

But if he does have dementia and it is related to trauma suffered while playing in the NFL, it is a simple workers compensation matter. There are set financial benefits to be paid out for "permanent disability" and access to lifetime medical treatment for a work related medical condition.

Wenever I hear former players moaning about their current medical conditions it makes me chuckle because I know there is a lot more to the story than what they are telling the media and public. For instance, many of these guys very likely took a lump sum buyout of their workers comp benefits (including medical treatment) long ago and are now regretting it because they are still in need of treatment,

Some are represented by attorneys who are trying deperately to get their cases moved out of the workers comp arena and into the general liability arena where the payouts are substantially larger.

But don't buy the hype -- if these former players aren't getting acccess to treatment, believe me there is more to the story than what is being presented.
__________________
Duckman: I'll never forget the last thing my father said to me...
Cornfed: "Careful son, I don't think the safety's on"?
Duckman: BEFORE THAT!!!
gblews is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 08:27 PM   #310
Timby
I AM the League of Mallows...
 
Timby's Avatar
 
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

Skywalker wrote: View Post
What exactly will full-time NFL referees do during the offseason? I feel dumb for asking that, but I'm drawing a blank.
The same thing they do currently, presumably. A lot of people don't realize just how much work it takes to get, and keep, an NFL officiating position.

If you're absolutely, ridiculously hot shit, and by that I mean the absolute best the world's ever seen, you could probably make it to the NFL about 15 years or so after working your first high school game ... and that's if you get lucky to have an obscenely accepting / patient employer right away, and move quickly up the ladder at work so you have enough seniority by the time shit gets serious, and you're using up all your spare time / vacation time networking and going to clinics and doing rules study and training videos, and God help you if you ever suffer an injury.

(As an example, Ed Hochuli started calling football in 1970 and got hired by the NFL in 1990; Mike Carey started in 1972 and got to the NFL in 1995.)

Once you step up from NCAA entry-level, you need to have a an assload of spare time: Two evenings a week (at least) for film and crew review (more for Division I-A and referees in general). You're gone all Saturday at the very least, sometimes you'll be leaving Friday evening and getting home Sunday afternoon. You're still looking to go to every clinic you can afford, and if you have a brain, you start going to clinics as an instructor, as well as a trainee (creating another thing that has to be planned and prepared for). You have to start doing fitness work to keep yourself fast and strong enough to be able to give 100 percent effort after three hours. That all eats up your off-season time. Then, a lot of people call arena football as an extra way to demonstrate their commitment / get experience at another positions / have as much game tape as possible to show supervisors. And after 20 - 25 years of that, you might get a call from the NFL to work as an umpire or a back judge.

It's not as balls-to-the-wall intense as, say, baseball, where you basically spend nine months on the road living out of a suitcase and three months preparing for the next nine, but it certainly means that football is going to be your main priority outside work and out of season.
__________________
When Gozer the Gozerian roams the earth ... you have my permission to die.
Timby is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 08:31 PM   #311
Skywalker
Admiral
 
Skywalker's Avatar
 
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

Thanks for the in-depth explanation, Timby.
Skywalker is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 09:00 PM   #312
Scout101
Admiral
 
Scout101's Avatar
 
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

^although what he answered was how hard it was to BECOME a NFL ref, not what they do in the off-season once they'e made it. Only touched on that a little, as far as keeping in shape, keeping up with rules and training, etc.
__________________
Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by man. ~Jack Handey
STO: @JScout33
Scout101 is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 10:22 PM   #313
gblews
Rear Admiral
 
gblews's Avatar
 
Location: So. Cal.
View gblews's Twitter Profile
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

Timby wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
What exactly will full-time NFL referees do during the offseason? I feel dumb for asking that, but I'm drawing a blank.
The same thing they do currently, presumably. A lot of people don't realize just how much work it takes to get, and keep, an NFL officiating position.

If you're absolutely, ridiculously hot shit, and by that I mean the absolute best the world's ever seen, you could probably make it to the NFL about 15 years or so after working your first high school game ... and that's if you get lucky to have an obscenely accepting / patient employer right away, and move quickly up the ladder at work so you have enough seniority by the time shit gets serious, and you're using up all your spare time / vacation time networking and going to clinics and doing rules study and training videos, and God help you if you ever suffer an injury.

(As an example, Ed Hochuli started calling football in 1970 and got hired by the NFL in 1990; Mike Carey started in 1972 and got to the NFL in 1995.)

Once you step up from NCAA entry-level, you need to have a an assload of spare time: Two evenings a week (at least) for film and crew review (more for Division I-A and referees in general). You're gone all Saturday at the very least, sometimes you'll be leaving Friday evening and getting home Sunday afternoon. You're still looking to go to every clinic you can afford, and if you have a brain, you start going to clinics as an instructor, as well as a trainee (creating another thing that has to be planned and prepared for). You have to start doing fitness work to keep yourself fast and strong enough to be able to give 100 percent effort after three hours. That all eats up your off-season time. Then, a lot of people call arena football as an extra way to demonstrate their commitment / get experience at another positions / have as much game tape as possible to show supervisors. And after 20 - 25 years of that, you might get a call from the NFL to work as an umpire or a back judge.

It's not as balls-to-the-wall intense as, say, baseball, where you basically spend nine months on the road living out of a suitcase and three months preparing for the next nine, but it certainly means that football is going to be your main priority outside work and out of season.
One of the assistant coaches for my jaycee team was an NFL ref. His name was Gordon Wells. When I knew him (as my coach) I think he was an alternate official. But in the years after I transferred, he apparently became full time because I would see him on TV reffing NFL games all the time.

I remember during my jaycee games our head coach was notorious for yelling and cursing out the refs. Wells, however, had a different approach. Mustering all of his NFL experience, he would wait until the official got close, and then calmly say, "Point of order, Mr. Referee", then start yelling and cursing.
__________________
Duckman: I'll never forget the last thing my father said to me...
Cornfed: "Careful son, I don't think the safety's on"?
Duckman: BEFORE THAT!!!
gblews is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 10:29 PM   #314
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

Who will crazy fans blame now when something goes wrong now that the real refs are back?
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline  
Old September 28 2012, 10:41 PM   #315
Ar-Pharazon
Rear Admiral
 
Ar-Pharazon's Avatar
 
Re: NFL 2012 - Drive to Glory

Timby wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
I would be royally pissed if they actually took our pensions away (I don't know that they are legally able to do that).
They are not. By definition, pensions are deferred compensation -- you've already earned the money, it just isn't being paid out to you until a later date. If your employer decided to take away or otherwise cancel your pension, you'd have grounds to sue them into the next century.
United airlines got around it with the bankruptcy.
__________________
Rimmer, on what period of history to live in-
“Well, It’d be the 19th century for me, one of Napoleon’s marshals.
The chance to march across Europe with the greatest general of all time and kill Belgians” - (White Hole).
Ar-Pharazon is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.