My first voyage with Voyager

[teya]

Yep. Just because someone is unlikeable, doesn't mean they don't deserve to live.

[Alpha Flyer]

Brit wrote:

---

Here we go again, it's the so called "pro-lifer" against the pro-abortionists arguments. There will never be a common ground. It's the episode that those who are inclined to hate Janeway give for their justification. But the honest truth is the ending could have been no other way.

Tim Russ and Ethan Phillips had contracts, Kenneth Biller did not. The story could only go one way.

Let's hear it for pragmatism. There's not enough of that around!

Me, I like the episode (like Season 6's Memorial) simply for the ethical debate it stirs up; for the best of those there's no clear outcome. The debate itself is the thing -- questioning, probing, thinking.

Oh, and that makes for the best Trek episodes. Funny, that...

[teacake]

So if this was all because Kes was crying what would have happened if Kes had liked Tuvix better?

"Captain everything that was ever missing in my love for Neelix is now embodied in Tuvix, this is the happiest I have ever been!"

[Delsaber]

Tuvix made me cry when I was a kid.

I remember telling an ex-girlfriend that years later. "Cute", she said. Then she laughed at me. Pfft.

True story.

[teacake]

You're well rid of her.

[Qutluch]

Delsaber wrote:

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Tuvix made me cry when I was a kid.

I remember telling an ex-girlfriend that years later. "Cute", she said. Then she laughed at me. Pfft.

True story.

Hell, Tuvix almost made me cry when I watched it yesterday!

[Delsaber]

I'll say this for it, that was one of the few Voyager episodes capable of playing around with the emotions of its audience. I'm not even sure if I'd need all five fingers on one hand to count those.

[R. Star]

teacake wrote:

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So if this was all because Kes was crying what would have happened if Kes had liked Tuvix better?

"Captain everything that was ever missing in my love for Neelix is now embodied in Tuvix, this is the happiest I have ever been!"

All Kes crying over wanting Neelix back did was just demonstrate Janeway had a preset disposition against Tuvix. She was critical of him because he was so desperate for his life, begging already having failed he sent Kes to beg on his behalf.

It's a non-factor. Janeway had already decided it was within her right to play god with his life. That's the root of her wrong. If Kes had spoken on Tuvix's behalf, it's debatable whether Janeway would have gone through with it or not. This is really a situation where one person standing up for him may have made a difference. One person saying it was wrong. Well the Doctor did, but Janeway is on record saying he isn't a person.

[teacake]

Delsaber wrote:

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I'll say this for it, that was one of the few Voyager episodes capable of playing around with the emotions of its audience. I'm not even sure if I'd need all five fingers on one hand to count those.

The first time I watched Tuvix I thought it was utterly retarded. I couldn't get past the blending of two people in the transporter, it was just waaaaaay too eye rolling for me.

Hey you know what would have been a good move.. remove all the Tuvok parts to get Tuvok back but leave a copy of those parts in Tuvix. This way we get to keep Tuvix, get rid of Neelix and still have a Vulcan as a main character.

[R. Star]

teacake wrote:

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The first time I watched Tuvix I thought it was utterly retarded. I couldn't get past the blending of two people in the transporter, it was just waaaaaay too eye rolling for me.

Hey you know what would have been a good move.. remove all the Tuvok parts to get Tuvok back but leave a copy of those parts in Tuvix. This way we get to keep Tuvix, get rid of Neelix and still have a Vulcan as a main character.

It's Star Trek, silly implausible things are part of it. I was actually disappointed there was no flower popping out of his neck since the Doctor said there were PLANTS in his DNA.

Really between transporter and replicator technology you think you'd be able to duplicate him(which transporters can do see Second Chance) and separate the other two. As much as I don't like Neelix, just because he's a jerk doesn't mean he deserves death.

[Delsaber]

Not death, no. Though perhaps life imprisonment off-camera...

[Qutluch]

Boo to you Neelix haters! He makes me laugh!

[teacake]

Oh I don't hate him, though my tolerance has recently taken a steep dive.

And yes, I was waiting for Tuvix to blossom as well. Those flowers have incredible application potential in genetic modification. Tuvix didn't even have health glitches. It's like the whole universe is just a bunch of Mr. Potato Head parts. Add flowers, transport and Yay, new cool stuff!

[R. Star]

Qutluch wrote:

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Boo to you Neelix haters! He makes me laugh!

I tend to dislike the word hate. I just generally find Neelix annoying and well... a jerk. There are upcoming episodes where I'll rant further on that.

If you like him, more power to you and I wouldn't take that away from you. Just please... distract him while I order something from the replicator?

[Guy Gardener]

If there was sympathy, they wouldn't have let Kathy Kill him.

Even if the entire crew said "let him live" it was till supposedly the Captain's call... For as long as as they were all on Federation soil. If Tuvix got off the ship, Kathryn lost all her legal powers as a Starfleet Captain.

What if Neelix said a magic word like "Asylum"?

Would Janeway protect Tuvix from Janeway?

Would Janeway be of two minds about how to treat a man of two minds?

There's no way Neelix did exit that entanglement without a healthy dose of Tuvok's cosmic Clap, and

Neelix now probably has exactly the same psychological triggers to be a serial killer that that Bajoran nutjob beat into Tuvok which seemed so troublesome in Repression.

You can't keep a compelling story without hard choices.

One choice is no choice.