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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 27 2012, 02:04 AM   #16
Therin of Andor
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Re: The Genesis planet...

beamMe wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
McIntyre also explains how the Genesis Cave and the Genesis Planet both appear to have natural light sources/suns.
There is at least one shot in TWOK that (more than) suggest that there is a star close by Regula.
Yes, but the Genesis Planet is not Regula. Regula wasn't a rogue wanderer; of course it had a sun. I'm saying that McIntyre also explains how there is a light source inside the Genesis Cave, deep within the planet.
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Old September 27 2012, 02:09 AM   #17
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Genesis Blowup Scene screencap
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Old September 27 2012, 02:22 AM   #18
los2188
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Re: The Genesis planet...

So where, or what is the source of light from inside Regula?? How do we know there's a light source near the nebula? Just a side note....I wonder if the Romulans would use the genesis device to create a new Romulus elsewhere....?
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Old September 27 2012, 03:41 AM   #19
Therin of Andor
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Re: The Genesis planet...

los2188 wrote: View Post
So where, or what is the source of light from inside Regula??
Do I really have to go and dig out the book?

How do we know there's a light source near the nebula?
'Cos it's not dark? The ships cast shadows across each other?

I wonder if the Romulans would use the genesis device to create a new Romulus elsewhere....?
Why go to the effort? They are an Empire and presumably have a few conquered worlds to their name.
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Old September 27 2012, 03:33 PM   #20
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Re: The Genesis planet...

if i remember correctly, and its been a while since i watch TWoK, but doesnt the end show genesis with a moon orbiting? i always assumed the moon was regula and the planet was formed from the nebula. There is already a star there as well when the enterprise first arrives at regula, otherwise how could there be a light and dark side as shown on the viewscreen?

also, iirc when kirk says "my god carol look at it" doesnt the view screen show masses pulling together to create the planet?
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Old September 27 2012, 04:11 PM   #21
Therin of Andor
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Re: The Genesis planet...

blueziggy wrote: View Post
doesnt the end show genesis with a moon orbiting?
No.

But we do see a star rising. http://youtu.be/vtQUePN5y40

iirc when kirk says "my god carol look at it" doesnt the view screen show masses pulling together to create the planet?
Yes.
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Old September 27 2012, 04:18 PM   #22
22 Stars
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Re: The Genesis planet...

blueziggy wrote: View Post
doesnt the end show genesis with a moon orbiting?
Nope
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Old September 27 2012, 04:19 PM   #23
Timo
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Re: The Genesis planet...

...It shows a planet of fixed size already being complete, just with some swirling clouds around it. "Pulling together to create a planet" is overstating the case by a wide margin.

Really, the simulation we saw already featured something very similar: a grey, dead moon or planetoid briefly glows orange as the Genesis wave races along its surface, and then coalesces into lakes, forests and whatnot. So for all we know, Genesis did almost exactly what the Marcuses wanted it to do, with the modification that the wave was initiated at a distance rather than at the surface of the target world.

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Old September 27 2012, 04:35 PM   #24
Therin of Andor
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Timo wrote: View Post
So for all we know, Genesis did almost exactly what the Marcuses wanted it to do, with the modification that the wave was initiated at a distance rather than at the surface of the target world.
For all you know.

That's not how the script described it. The new planet is drawn together from nebula gases and the USS Reliant debris. The whole point of this explosion is that it is less controlled, and much bigger, than either the simulation tape (transforming a planetoid named Keti Bandar by the FX guys) and the Genesis Cave.

If you're trying to tell us that it's Regula being terraformed by the wave, what happened to the orbiting Regula One space station? If the explosion is doing what it's supposed to do, why the urgency for Enterprise to escape? Because the device's detonation had not been aimed at a target. Wouldn't the wave dissipate before it found the planet?
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Old September 27 2012, 04:36 PM   #25
22 Stars
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Firstly, Regula is brown, not grey (at least before the bluray)

Second, what we see of the Genesis planet being born looks nothing like the Carol Marcus' demo reel.

I believe the intent of the filmmakers is that the Mutara Nebula becomes Genesis. We don't know the fate of Regula, or Regula One space station.
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Old September 27 2012, 04:58 PM   #26
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Re: The Genesis planet...

22 Stars wrote: View Post
Second, what we see of the Genesis planet being born looks nothing like the Carol Marcus' demo reel.
It's a demo reel, showing a greatly accelerated, not to mention, projected computer simulation. They've never deployed the Genesis effect upon a planetary scale, so of course, the demo reel is going to look nothing like the actual effect.

I believe the intent of the filmmakers is that the Mutara Nebula becomes Genesis.
Yet, they then showed the Genesis planet in orbit of a star, since when did nebulae orbit stars?

We then come to the classic argument about how much mass is needed for the creation of the Genesis planet, and whether gaseous mass can be used in place of solid mass.

Like I said earlier, it makes more sense for the Genesis wave to have travelled to the nearest planet or planetoid, which could have been Regulus, enveloped that planet or planetoid as it was designed to do, and then terraformed that planet or planetoid into Genesis.

Hell, even if Regulus did become Genesis, Regula One might have even survived the Genesis wave, depending on it's orbital location at that time.

We don't know the fate of Regula, or Regula One space station.
Not on-screen, no. However, in many of the novels set during this time, it's mentioned that Carol and/or David, returned to Regula One, in order to pack up their research and sort out the personal effects of their deceased colleagues (the bodies of those colleagues were presumably picked up by Enterprise).

This could all be solved quite simply, if someone were to ask Harve Bennett or Nicholas Meyer, what their intentions were.
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Old September 27 2012, 05:17 PM   #27
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
The new planet is drawn together from nebula gases and the USS Reliant debris.
That explosion scattered the nebula all over the place; explosions expand outwards not inwards.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
If you're trying to tell us that it's Regula being terraformed by the wave, what happened to the orbiting Regula One space station?
Destroyed by the explosion's shockwave?
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Old September 27 2012, 07:31 PM   #28
Timo
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Or by the Genesis effect. After all, it was supposed to transform targets into life-bearing worlds. If it encountered something as tiny as a space station or a starship, it would turn those into absurdly small miniature Earths, structures without any hope of remaining stable; quite possibly, the orange smear we see around the Genesis planet is what remains of the Federation space station, and what would have remained of the Enterprise had not Spock decided to play circuit breaker for the warp engine.

Wouldn't the wave dissipate before it found the planet?
If so, Kirk would never have been at risk. Why would he need warp drive to escape a wave that dissipates at a distance shorter than the one he just crossed at impulse?

(Okay, it has to be argued that Kirk didn't even have impulse available when fleeing the detonation - that sorry limp we witness must be thrusters or somesuch at work!)

Of course, if the wave was of a quickly dissipating sort, it could never englobe the nebula and turn it into a planet. The ability to reach as far as Regula is there no matter how one looks at it, thus allowing for Regula as the preferable conversion target and leaving Mutara the less likely option.

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Old September 28 2012, 11:14 AM   #29
Therin of Andor
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Re: The Genesis planet...

Admiral M wrote: View Post
This could all be solved quite simply, if someone were to ask Harve Bennett or Nicholas Meyer, what their intentions were.
It's in the script!

RELIANT
The WHINE increases to fever pitch, then: she goes!

EXT. MUTARA NEBULA - MASTER EFFECT

As Reliant goes, so goes the nebula. The "Genesis Effect" WE SAW in its earliest experiments, now seems familiar on a gigantic, cosmic scale.

The blinding flash at first, followed by the same tumbling turbulence of the miniature test. It is awesome.

231 INT. ENTERPRISE BRIDGE 231
The bridge doors open and Carol appears. Instinctively she draws near her son. Finally, Kirk turns, sees Carol --

KIRK
Reduce speed. My God, Carol. Look at it.

ON SCREEN and INTERCUT -- GENESIS TUMBLES and starts evolving. A moment in history.
Later:

SAAVIK'S VOICE
(intercom)
Admiral, you've got to see this! There's new life -- a whole new world, a Genesis world -- !

But Kirk is past hearing or caring. He is huddled up against the glass, destroyed. Bones looks on, helpless.

DISSOLVE TO:

237 EXT. SPACE

A spectacular look at Carol's planet being born!
Then:

EXT. SPACE 246
The Enterprise passes the new planet in all its beauty.
The scene takes place "EXT. MUTARA NEBULA". "... a gigantic, cosmic scale." No mention of it involving Regula nor its space station.

The novelization makes it even more explicit.

The script says this about the Genesis Cave and its light source:
A huge cavern. Kirk is actually standing at the middle of it. Space extends vastly above and below his point of view. Like Eden, lush growth everywhere, water- falls, and a cobalt blue sky high, high above where a round orb glows sending light and warmth downward.
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; September 28 2012 at 11:38 AM. Reason: excerpt
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Old September 28 2012, 02:14 PM   #30
Timo
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Re: The Genesis planet...

It seems the script wasn't followed in making the film, then, as we fail to see either the formation of the Genesis planet out of nothingness, or the orb in the "sky" of the Genesis cave...

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