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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 26 2012, 04:50 AM   #31
RyanKCR
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

The first time I saw Generations I cringed during the saucer crash. It looked so fake to me. It looked like a model crashing into a model train setup. I was surprised years later that the saucer was as large as it was. It felt smaller to me.
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Old September 26 2012, 05:46 AM   #32
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
The windows are transparent aluminum... this is stated. If the ship supposedly crashed hard enough to shatter metal then why didn't anything else shatter? Why don't they shatter when photon torpedoes strike the ship. Those should be impacting with as much force than any collision. It's just sloppy any way you look at it and the effects people forgot those windows were supposed to not be glass.
Different metals break under different stresses.

And moving the children into the star drive for any reason is just stupid. Worf even jumps on a kid's case when he's caught wondering down there one episode. Again, the whole purpose of the saucer section is to have all the civilians in it when they need to separate on a moment's notice... so they'd have those classrooms there too. There's no other reason for this that doesn't require the main character to be stupid to explain it... the real reason is just artificial drama.
Maybe they were on a school excursion or something. Maybe camping beneath the deuterium tanks.
It's a thin excuse and I suspect you know it about the glass. As for camping trips? That's another excuse and not a good one. If they want to camp they have... holodecks... in the Saucer... there's no reason AT ALL any civilian should have been in the drive section.
Maybe so, but really, chill out. It's all make believe anyway.
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Old September 26 2012, 09:03 PM   #33
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

I think the saucer crash in Generations was fantastically done, and still holds up well today. I think it is a very impressive visual effect sequence even by today's standards, and far surpasses much of what is accomplished through CGI. Even though there might be some limitations in the Generations footage because they were filming outdoors and not using true motion control, I still think the 'physicality' of having a real, physical object being filmed gives sequences such as these a 'weight' that a CGI sequence just does not have.
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Old September 26 2012, 09:55 PM   #34
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post

One thing about the evacuation that has always puzzled me: why was Sickbay evacuated?

Sickbay was on deck twelve of the Saucer Section, close to the centre of the deck to afford it as much protection as possible. No medical facility was ever established as being in the Drive Section, though it would make sense when the ship was separated, so as to treat casualties during a combat situation--but why would Beverly be there instead of the main facility?
Arsenal of Freedom puts Sickbay in the Stardrive section.
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Old September 26 2012, 10:23 PM   #35
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

I just watched the crash sequence again. It looks a lot better than I remembered.

It's even better without Riker's inane barking. http://youtu.be/0U8SfW3H6j0
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Old September 26 2012, 10:51 PM   #36
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Yeah, I've gotta say that since this thread started, I've watched the crash on youtube probably three times, and its still very well done. There is a certain realism with models that just can't be achieved with CGI.

Probably my only complaint would be scale; when the saucer hits the treeline, the leaves are just too big for the ship.

Now that I think about it, a really cool scene would have been from the point of view of people currently in Ten Forward... rushing straight towards all those trees would have been a real trip.
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Old September 26 2012, 11:08 PM   #37
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

The skid along the ground felt a little longer than it needed to be but otherwise I liked it very much.

Behind the scenes of crashing the Enterprise
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Old September 27 2012, 01:19 AM   #38
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

I thought the crash was awesome and very cinematic not something they could do on TV at the time. I remember when I saw it at the theater I stopped breathing and didn't realize it until the saucer secton came ot a rest. I hated seeing the ship go but it went out like a fighter.
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Old September 27 2012, 01:53 AM   #39
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

I personally enjoyed watching the Bird Of Prey explode much more but thats just me.
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Old September 27 2012, 02:11 AM   #40
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

The sequence was done about as well as it could possibly be done for 1994. The only thing that ever bugged me was that they weren't able to make the windows break on the model (which really only becomes an issue in those shots focusing on the leading edge of the saucer as it plows through the valley).
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Old September 27 2012, 04:09 AM   #41
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I acknowledge that as a logical assumption, though such a facility was never stated to exist (although on the E-E, there seems to be a small medical bay on the same deck as main engineering). But why would Dr Crusher be there? Surely she would be in the main ward seeing to things there and leave a subordinate (Selar, Martin) in charge of the stardrive sickbay evacuation.
As Chief Medical Officer, Crusher was responsible for getting those injured crewman in the drive section's ward to safety. If any of those people were lost, there would be hell to pay and Crusher's head would roll. It seems reasonable to me, then, that at the time the orders to evacuate were given, and given the nature of the danger, Crusher deemed the main Sickbay wards on deck 12 relatively safe and under control and probably felt comfortable leaving it to another Doctor while she personally made sure everyone in the drive section sickbay was taken care of.

Another reason that Beverly may have decided to help out down in the drive section medical ward is because they may have been shorthanded on medical staff that were needed elsewhere moving people from the stardrive section -- after all, it was a particularly busy day in the drive section on account of the entire school deciding to conduct a field trip to the drive section while the Enterprise is running with shields up, staring down the torpedo tube of a D5 Bird of Prey.

I'm all for full immersion in the narrative, so I choose to believe in my own personal interpretation that the destruction of the Enterprise D is a story of bad decisions, incompetence, and laziness on the part of the crew. They're lucky that little girl only lost her stuffed animal and not her life -- among a group of kids that were seemingly abandoned in the corridor until Geordi found them, in the stardrive section during an apparent yellow alert / at least general quarters type of situation -- running with shields up into a hostile situation.

All that, combined with the failure to at least try remodulating the shields, and a less than thorough examination of Geordi's visor when it was known to be tampered with, makes this operation look pretty bad.

Take this and the incompetence and irresponsibility of the command crew of the Yamato, it's no wonder they stopped putting children (spoken with Ch'Pok's voice from DS9: Rules of Engagement) onboard Starships. Enterprise never even bothered to separate the ship when they flew out to Nelvana III deep into the Neutral Zone to look for a secret base.

The crews of both ships should be brought up on charges, but the Yamato crew took the easy way out and got themselves dead.
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Old September 27 2012, 04:27 AM   #42
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
All that, combined with the failure to at least try remodulating the shields, and a less than thorough examination of Geordi's visor when it was known to be tampered with, makes this operation look pretty bad.
I'm with you on remodulating the sheilds and all, and I don't mean to be a butthead, but when was it known that Geordi's visor was tampered with?
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Old September 27 2012, 05:02 AM   #43
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Geordi knew because Soran had it most of the time Geordi was on the Klingon ship. If he didn't automatically assume it was tampered with, it's another failure since it's been tampered with before.
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Old September 27 2012, 02:05 PM   #44
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Also, Geordi's VISOR had been tampered with before, and that tampering almost resulted in the assassination of a visiting leader. If from that point on, they didn't automatically check the VISOR anytime Geordi had been in a compromising situation, they were definitely incompetent.
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Old September 27 2012, 03:20 PM   #45
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Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

CoveTom wrote: View Post
Also, Geordi's VISOR had been tampered with before, and that tampering almost resulted in the assassination of a visiting leader. If from that point on, they didn't automatically check the VISOR anytime Geordi had been in a compromising situation, they were definitely incompetent.
You're correct in that they should have checked his visor because it had been tampered with in the past, but they still didn't know for a fact that it had been tampered with. I had always surmised that his visor was taken away so Geordi simply wouldn't be able to see not that Soran was going to tamper with it. I mean in the movie Soran tells the Klingons to "eliminate them." At that point, I don't see why Soran would have tampered with the visor just to then destroy the enterprise if that old bird of prey could. To me, he seemed generally interested in the visor as a doctor so he studied it to see how it works...etc but at the last moment, he decided to do whatever it is he did with it, then send Geordi back. But again you are very spot on. They really should have checked it. I do stand corrected.
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