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Old September 24 2012, 09:23 PM   #16
Location: Great Britain
Re: Hypothetical precedent for Klingons to join UFP by 26th Century?

R. Star wrote: View Post
This is even assuming the Federation exists in the 26th century. A lot can happen in 200 years and it's frankly arrogant to assume that a given power will still be dominant for that entire time span.
I'd point out a 29th Century ship like the Wells Class U.S.S. Relativity. Which was clearly Starfleet, which would tend to indicate the Federation is still around.
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Old September 24 2012, 09:59 PM   #17
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Re: Hypothetical precedent for Klingons to join UFP by 26th Century?

You could take a less literal view of what Daniels said. In DS9 we saw the Federation Alliance, which the Klingons were a member of, what if by the 26th century that arrangement became more formal. Say, both sides are members of one unified power but retain their separate laws and airspace, or something.
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Old September 24 2012, 11:42 PM   #18
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Re: Hypothetical precedent for Klingons to join UFP by 26th Century?

NrobbieC wrote: View Post
Say, both sides are members of one unified power but retain their separate laws and airspace ...
I always figure that was the way it was for all Federation members.

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Old September 25 2012, 12:35 AM   #19
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Re: Hypothetical precedent for Klingons to join UFP by 26th Century?

It might not be impossible, but it's a long ways off, perhaps even by 26th century standards. Klingon space is vast, likely nearly as vast as the Federation and there is no reason to assume that it's any less populated. Of all those races that originated in what is now Klingon controlled space, how many of them were asked to join the Empire and how many were conquered, pillaged, and subjugated in order to serve the Empire.

It's likely most of them were conquered because let's face it...the Klingons weren't out there spreading peace and prosperity.

So while it's one thing to be allies with the Klingons in order to resolve the centuries of conflict between the Empire and the Federation and stand with them in a fight because they represent a prominent political and military power in the galaxy, it's quite another to acknowledge them as equals within the Federation by extending full membership. Not without first bringing about some representation and restitution to those worlds that have been conquered. Though realistically, by even 24th century standards, they've likely been in the system for so long that many wouldn't know how to operate on their own. And depending on the situation, the Empire might not be willing to even give them up.

The Klingons are like Hannibal Lector. You might use him to help solve a case, but you're never going to invite him into your home for dinner, because you'll be dinner. Likewise, the Klingons might stand beside you in a fight because it's the right thing to do or worth the greater good, but you don't want to really be thier friends or want them dating your daughter because their blood thirsty killers who despite all their talk about honor will stab you in the back if it suits their purpose.
This is an empire built on the backs of other worlds after all.

That being said, one way to do it, might be to do something along the lines of what state Cardassia is in post Dominion war. Cardassia is in the perfect position to become a federation member in the near future due to the complete devastation of their homeworld. They will be relying on the Federation and other neighboring worlds for decades to come. Through this joint cooperation, the Federation will be in a position to build Cardassia up as a close ally with the potential of becoming a full member, though it will no doubt take quite some time.

So if like the Cardassians, the Klingons suffered a defeat that so irrevocably destabilized their government and military that pretty much anyone who walked into the capital and claimed the job could be appointed leader, then the Federation might step in to help rebuild and in doing so, begin to build the bridges and ties needed to bring them into the fold.

It's hard to imagine though, the Klingons suffering such a defeat without the Federation either being involved as an ally and being equally damaged or being an opponent. And if its the latter, than any help the Federation might give, could be seen as an attempt to take over.
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Old September 25 2012, 04:33 AM   #20
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Re: Hypothetical precedent for Klingons to join UFP by 26th Century?

Most interesting points.

I definitely agree that a direct Kir'Shana analogue with "the true teachings of Kahless" would be too overt, so I'm binning that aspect of the story.

I also concede that either party would need to be in dire straights in order for an alliance to proceed to a merger.

Excellent point about Martok's heritage and emphasis on honor, t_smitts. I think that's something could incorporate, too.

So here's a brief draft of my fanon, borrowing and rearranging snippets from the Star Trek Online storyline:
  • Through manipulation by Iconians, the Undine (Species 8472) believe that an invasion from non-fluidic space factions into their realm is imminent, and begin infiltrating major Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers as a pretext for a possible counter-invasion.
  • The Undine successfully take over key positions in the Gorn Hegemony, and nearly does so with the Klingon Empire. Minor skirmishes between the Gorns and Klingons follow as a consequence of Undine manipulation.
  • 2403 - Fed/Klingon relations are briefly strengthened following an successful but costly joint operation with a handful of Cardassian Defense Force volunteer vessels to defeat a Borg fleet in the Aldeberaan Sector.
  • After the High Council is convinced of the Undine threat, the Klingons begins a full-scale invasion into Gorn space, which eventually ends in a stalemate. The Federation condemns the conflict, and Fed/Klingon relations sour slightly.
  • 2409 - the main Starfleet cast of my fanon sets of on their first adventures (yay!)
  • Federation-mediated peace talks between the Gorn and the Klingons are threated by a rogue Klingon faction, the latter of which seeking to restore the Empire "to its former glory" with the desire to conquer Gorn space and reclaim the Archanis System (the latter still in Fed hands at this point in time).
  • Our intrepid crew discovers that revered Klingon Ambassador B'vat plays a major role in this conspiracy, combating him in a series of confrontations and eventually defeating him after a detour via the Guardian of Forever to the TOS era.
  • Fed/Klingon relations sour. The High Council is divided over the death of B'vat - figurehead Emperor Kahless II (the clone) and Martok's Gin'tak Worf condemn B'vat's deeds, in contrast to the majority angered by Starfleet's actions. The Empire ejects all Federation Ambassadors save for Worf.
  • Further poking around by Undine agents within the Federation lead the Klingons to believe that the Undine have also taken over the UFP, resulting in skirmishes that are barely reined in by the leadership from both sides.
  • Meanwhile, the cast is away meddling in the Reman affairs of the Romulan Empire, which is otherwise on reasonably good terms with the Federation following the overthrow of the mad Praetor Shinzon and the averting of the destruction of Romulus from the Hobus Supernova by Ambassador Spock and former-miner-turned-Senator Nero.
  • An Undine agent manipulates a Romulan subfaction into plotting to assassinate Chancellor Martok's grandson M'ven, in the hopes of igniting a war between the Klingons and Romulans.

    Whilst following on leads pertaining the possible Undine threat, the Starfleet cast crosses paths with their Klingon counterparts (they already know each other from numerous past encounters).

    The motley Klingon crew, seeking to regain their honor from a past incident, manages to warn M'ven about the assassin with the help of two of the Starfleet cast, and saves his life, although he is seriously wounded and thus cannot participate in a Bat'leth tournament as planned.

    One of the Starfleet officers then takes a great risk by representing M'ven and the House of Martok at the tournament, as the other Klingons in their party are also in no fighting shape. With some sage advice from Worf, said officer wins First Place.

    In light of the honorable deed shown by both the Klingon and Starfleet cast, Chancellor Martok restores the former's honor and concedes to a temporary cease-fire between the Feds and Klingons until they can sort the details out.
  • In the meantime, the Bajoran prophets in the Wormhole aren't too happy about the Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers poking at each other. With their justification "A hand that remains closed ceases to be a hand," they promptly redeposit the missing Dominion ships they took away during DS9: "Sacrifice of Angels" back outside Deep Space Nine, where the Federation and Klingons were just having their negotiations.

    These time-displaced Dominion ships promptly capture DS9 and cause Starfleet and the KDF to retreat to Bajor. The station is finally retaken by a joint task force including Vice Admiral Sisko on the USS Defiant, the fanon's primary cast, their Klingon counterparts and the new Enterprise-F.
  • (Minor plot detour whilst the main Starfleet cast explores fluidic space and confronts the Undine)
  • Towards the end of Martok's reign, there has been a small but significant shift away from aristocracy towards appointing "commoner" Klingons to positions of authority based on honor and integrity (the idealised Klingon that Worf himself once dreamed of becoming). Klingons continue to maintain their own cultural identity but are already more receptive to closer collaboration with the UFP.
  • Tholians invade and occupy Nukara Prime on the Fed/Klingon border. Federation and Klingons jointly fight the Tholians.
  • (Skip a number of decades, well after the end of the fanon)
  • The Klingons, Federation and Romulans would eventually independently discover the pecking order of manipulation, so to speak:

    Sphere Builders -> Iconians -> Tholians and Undine

    where the Sphere builder's aim is to cause disharmony in both normal and fluidic space as a pretext for invasion.
  • The three factions would engage the Sphere Builders separately, with the Klingons and Romulans suffering the heaviest losses of territory and military power.
  • These two factions would then enter into an alliance with the similarly-battered Federation, and through the century-long conflict with their common enemy, the Klingons and Romulans merge with the UFP out of necessity.
  • The union turns the tide of the war, with the final UFP victory at the Battle of Procryon V in the 26th Century, forcing the Sphere Builders to retreat and decide to try their luck in the 22nd Century with the Temporal Cold War.
  • (Skip a few centuries)
  • In the 29th Century, two Federation operatives - a Vulcan and a Klingon from the Korath-class timeship USS Rozhenko - are sent on a series of missions to ensure that the Klingons do join the Federation.
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Old September 28 2012, 12:33 AM   #21
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Re: Hypothetical precedent for Klingons to join UFP by 26th Century?

Thoughts, anyone?
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26th century, federation, join, klingon empire

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