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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: How do you feel about the Spock/Uhura pairing?
I LOVE them together! 29 46.77%
I generally think they’re okay together. 12 19.35%
Not my preference, but I don’t mind them together. 13 20.97%
I HATE them together. 8 12.90%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 23 2012, 06:33 PM   #106
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Malaika wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post

Why would that be? Could it be because then she might not break up "the big three" or something of that nature, or is there another reason? I don't see what makes Spock a poor choice compared to Scotty or Sulu. And as far as the 2009 movie goes, she (Zoe) didn't and I think wouldn't have had the kind of chemistry with Pegg or Cho that she had with Quinto. Their story together makes the most sense, but I'd still like your feedback. I'm interested to know why you think she'd be better with other people.
I think that you hit the nail on the head

Personally, I can't see what the heck TOS Uhura had in common with Scotty or Sulu or when or where she has showed some genuine interest in them romantically. Even less, I can't see why Nu!Uhura should be attracted by either of them (nu!Uhura who, I want to remind for the sake of, intercepted and translated a transmission from a Klingon prison planet in her spare time and that essentially saved everyone's butt)
Talking about the actual television series developed by Gene Roddenberry here, of course, not the movies, specially not the ones like star trek V that Gene Roddenberry himself didn't consider canon for plenty of reasons. The movies are no different than JJ's movie, in that sense neither Spock/Uhura nor Scotty/Uhura were canon in TOSeries, they're canon only in the movies where each director and set of writers proposed their own version.

I think that if people are against Spock/Uhura because it reduces her to a love interest then it doesn't make sense for them to approve any Uhura pair, at all , especially not Uhura/Scotty that not only did came out from nowhere in TFF (and in that you can essentially criticize them using the same reasons that are now used against Spock/Uhura) but it was bad taste, frankly, as they were old people and she was under the influence of Syboc who was using her for his own purposes. Not to mention her nude dance scene from the same movie
It felt forced to me in TFF it figures in the Abrams' verse they didn't even interact in that movie.
On the other hand, nuSpock and Uhura know each other since years.

Spock and Uhura did have some flirting scenes in TOS and GR had wanted to explore that from the get go but he couldn't do that. So, If you can easily buy a random couple like Scotty/Uhura in TFF without having any actual hint of that in the original series, then it shouldn't be so hard to buy the Spock/Uhura thing in the alternative reality.
Very good points. I also can't understand how the new Uhura would be better with someone she didn't even interact with. The closest they came to interaction in the film was standing within proximity of each other on the bridge while the team was brainstorming. Same thing with Sulu.


TOS fans that believed the movie needed to be about "the big 3."
or the big TWO. To be fair, there wasn't this big 3, at all. It became the Kirk/Spock story and in that JJ isn't the one to blame. I do wonder why people care so much about McCoy now but didn't have any issue with him losing his importance in the prime universe.
I will be very glad if they'll include McCoy in the trio again but I will be even more glad if they will have "the big 4" this time like it seems that they're trying to do with Uhura.
I like McCoy, but I like the rest of the team too. I'm not sure that it has to be the "big" anything. All of the crew deserves some focus, but of course some are going to get more than others...


"Her relationship with Spock elevated her to the level of the original trio. She was everything she ever was in TOS and MORE by sharing her affection with the moral (sic) center of the show, and not the playboy Captain."- Roberto Orci, (writer/producer for the rebooted Trek movies) referring to Uhura.
I don't like that it's her "relationship with Spock" that does this. I would like to see her contributions to solving the issues they end up having on their voyage be the reason for this if that's how it is. I think that's where they're going by making her a xenolinguistics specialist (canon-wise), and I hope that's what happens. She also seems like she wouldn't be bad at understanding people. Language is only there to express thoughts and feelings...



teacake wrote: View Post
But.. Yoko DID break up the Beatles!

You know she could have gotten John to stay if she wanted to.. but noooo, she had too many nude sit-in grapefruitesque plans for him and she didn't want to share him with those doofuses any longer.
Perhaps that's true for Yoko, but Uhura is no Yoko to me because Yoko was never a part of the original group, Uhura is/was. It's more like how the Beatles get reduced to John and Paul, forgetting George and Ringo, and even that's not an accurate comparison (to me).
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Old September 23 2012, 07:40 PM   #107
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

But.. Yoko DID break up the Beatles!

You know she could have gotten John to stay if she wanted to.. but noooo, she had too many nude sit-in grapefruitesque plans for him and she didn't want to share him with those doofuses any longer.

how could she ruin the John-Paul friendship if that wasn't even the real Paul McCartney?
Jokes aside, the beatles didn't "break up". John just wanted to start a different career because he took interest in things that his friends didn't care about (while Yoko shared his interests instead) and it showed in his music.
He did what was good for him in that moment and he wrote some of his best and most memorable songs after he left the group.


I don't like that it's her "relationship with Spock" that does this. I
to be fair,BobOrci was replying to a Spock/Uhura hater who had previously said that her relationship with Spock ruined her character. In context, that's why he said "her relationship with Spock" in his counter-argument



Perhaps that's true for Yoko, but Uhura is no Yoko to me because Yoko was never a part of the original group, Uhura is/was. It's more like how the Beatles get reduced to John and Paul, forgetting George and Ringo, and even that's not an accurate comparison (to me).
Bob's (funny)comparison is a good one, though. Yoko was unfairly blamed for the fall of the beatles even though if someone was to blame it was the beatles themselves and John not her. When John met Yoko he already was "at odds" with the group.
At the time, the fans were trying to blame someone and Yoko was the easy target, the outsider, because according to some fans John couldn't have a life outside Kirk..ops... Paul and the Beatles, his life had to revolve around that and nothing else. (rumors said that Paul didn't accept Yoko too )
The same judgment is often used by some trek fans when talking about Nu!Spock who apparently can't be friends with Kirk if he has a girlfriend.
In that, nu!Spock is "changed" compared to TOS!Spock as he's different. Here, Spock and Kirk started as strangers to enemies while Uhura was his friend since, probably, years (similar to Kirk and McCoy who also are best friends here). That's not her fault (or McCoy's) if K/S weren't friends from the first frame of the movie and it surely won't be her fault if they will still have issues. It has nothing to do with her and everything to do with how different K/S are in this reality and the different circumstances where they met each other.
Spock will be still friends with Kirk, of course, but unlike Spock Prime he doesn't have only that friendship now and he shouldn't have only that friendship.
Less things to take for granted makes a more challenging story IMO
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Old September 23 2012, 10:26 PM   #108
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Malaika wrote: View Post
He did what was good for him in that moment and he wrote some of his best and most memorable songs after he left the group.
You know, when I think of John Lennon, the first thing that comes to mind is not the Beatles, but Imagine... Hmm. He was still great with the Beatles, though.


I don't like that it's her "relationship with Spock" that does this. I
to be fair,BobOrci was replying to a Spock/Uhura hater who had previously said that her relationship with Spock ruined her character. In context, that's why he said "her relationship with Spock" in his counter-argument
Oh, thank you. In context, this sounds a lot better.



Perhaps that's true for Yoko, but Uhura is no Yoko to me because Yoko was never a part of the original group, Uhura is/was. It's more like how the Beatles get reduced to John and Paul, forgetting George and Ringo, and even that's not an accurate comparison (to me).
Bob's (funny)comparison is a good one, though. Yoko was unfairly blamed for the fall of the beatles even though if someone was to blame it was the beatles themselves and John not her. When John met Yoko he already was "at odds" with the group.
Wasn't it also a group drifting apart thing too. I think I remember reading something about George in India or Tibet or somewhere smoking pipes and meditating, and the group wasn't into that.

At the time, the fans were trying to blame someone and Yoko was the easy target, the outsider, because according to some fans John couldn't have a life outside Kirk..ops... Paul and the Beatles, his life had to revolve around that and nothing else. (rumors said that Paul didn't accept Yoko too )
I wonder if some of it had to do with John practically abandoning his son as well. You can't blame Yoko for that, unless she had something to do with it. That's where I heard "Hey Jude" came from. The good thing is that he was trying to reconnect with his oldest son from a former marriage before he was assassinated.


The same judgment is often used by some trek fans when talking about Nu!Spock who apparently can't be friends with Kirk if he has a girlfriend.
Which makes absolutely no sense to me. In the real world, most guys (people, really) don't just have one or two friends and never have a girlfriend/significant other because of it. Some people have tried to argue the whole "Vulcan" aspect of it, but that seems to be the case with Vulcans too, and they don't limit the not having a life thing to just Spock. Apparently Bones and Kirk aren't supposed to have lives either. That seems questionable to me.


In that, nu!Spock is "changed" compared to TOS!Spock as he's different. Here, Spock and Kirk started as strangers to enemies while Uhura was his friend since, probably, years (similar to Kirk and McCoy who also are best friends here). That's not her fault (or McCoy's) if K/S weren't friends from the first frame of the movie and it surely won't be her fault if they will still have issues. It has nothing to do with her and everything to do with how different K/S are in this reality and the different circumstances where they met each other.
Spock will be still friends with Kirk, of course, but unlike Spock Prime he doesn't have only that friendship now and he shouldn't have only that friendship.
Less things to take for granted makes a more challenging story
IMO
And I actually liked that. I hope it builds from there where everyone is friends, or at least friendly (hey, it is a 5 year mission on one ship), but those tighter bonds from the first film are maintained. That's just my opinion though.
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Old September 24 2012, 02:03 AM   #109
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Malaika wrote: View Post
I think that if people are against Spock/Uhura because it reduces her to a love interest then it doesn't make sense for them to approve any Uhura pair, at all , especially not Uhura/Scotty that not only did came out from nowhere in TFF (and in that you can essentially criticize them using the same reasons that are now used against Spock/Uhura) but it was bad taste, frankly, as they were old people and she was under the influence of Syboc who was using her for his own purposes. Not to mention her nude dance scene from the same movie
1. I think it’s the disproportionate authority that helps give the "love interest" impression. A point that is hammered home when nuSpock, for some godforsaken reason, has the power to decide which ship Uhura serves on!

2. It seemed perfectly possible to me that Scotty and Uhura might get together especially at that stage in their lives. After a mild surprise initially, it felt right. It certainly wasn’t the "What the hell’s going on here! That makes no sense what-so-ever" variety of shock in ST09. By the way, it seemed to me that what may have been mistaken for flirting in TOS, was actually just teasing by Uhura. Spock, of course showed disinterest toward all women (under normal circumstances). The point of the teasing was to highlight his individual characteristics. Thus Uhura’s comment about not being surprised Vulcan as no moon.

3. "Frankly", I’m amazed no one else has pulled you up on that bit of blatant ageism. How anyone, could imagine a relationship between two people is in "bad taste", solely because of their age, is beyond me. By the way, the scene where this comes to light (initially at least) is a long time before Syboc comes on board, which doesn't happen till about half way through the movie.

4. Uhura didn’t do a nude anything. Don’t tell me, the real problem is she was too old to be dancing like that.

Edit: Amended previous edit (I think she is wearing something). To be honest I found that scene somewhat demeaning anyway, but I wonder how many would complain if she was 25?


It felt forced to me in TFF it figures in the Abrams' verse they didn't even interact in that movie.
You do realise the writers invented what went on in ST09 and could have made different choices? However I will grant you that nuScotty didn't work well, period. Sulu was a possibility though, especially for those who will grab hold of any precedent (Mirror Universe) in a storm.

"Her relationship with Spock elevated her to the level of the original trio. She was everything she ever was in TOS and MORE by sharing her affection with the moral (sic) center of the show, and not the playboy Captain." - Roberto Orci, (writer/producer for the rebooted Trek movies) referring to Uhura.
Malaika wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
I don't like that it's her "relationship with Spock" that does this.
to be fair,BobOrci was replying to a Spock/Uhura hater who had previously said that her relationship with Spock ruined her character. In context, that's why he said "her relationship with Spock" in his counter-argument
Unlike Spock/Uhura Fan, I don’t think that makes it sound any better. A knee jerk reaction like that probably gives a truer indication of how she is viewed. It certainly reinforces what comes across in the movie. I mean, he doesn't even pull it out of the fire. He actually goes on to say the reason she is "MORE" in ST09 than she was in TOS is because of who she is "sharing her affection with"!
Oh and Spock is the "… moral (sic) center of the show …"?! Mr Not-this-time? My main problem is trying to find the moral centre of the movie. How can I ever thank him? Ah, perhaps he thinks morals are restricted to how many people you sleep with? That would explain a lot.

Malaika wrote: View Post
"If you think Uhura was sexualized because that is all we could think of to make her relevant, then you are having sexist thoughts for not wondering the same about Spock
... - Roberto Orci, (writer/producer for the rebooted Trek movies) referring to Uhura
Not to put too fine a point on it, but that’s utter rubbish. We clearly see Uhura doing the typical female thing of "supporting her man". He initiates nothing that I can recall (at least that is similar to TOS). And I don't believe it was Spock giving "moral support" before Uhura went off to save the day, etc.

And to think that despite the above it isn’t even Uhura who takes the biggest hit.

[Rant]For me Star Trek is a space opera not a soap opera. The Uhura relationship with Spock ruins his character. Not that it isn’t being wrecked in other ways, obviously. Spock had a (mostly) impervious and semi detached mystique. It was his thing. If you don’t appreciate at that, fine. But why stuff things up for those who do? Surely there are other characters who aren’t so unique and wouldn’t be as badly, well, "compromised" by an injection of extraneous emotional claptrap? If such is deemed to be "needed" of course. I just don’t get it. Someone goes to the trouble of coming up with one of the most interesting and iconic characters ever and all most people want to do is drag it back to being little different to a production model human being. Bloody philistines![/Rant]

With copious apologies to everyone I have just mortally offended of course.

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Old September 24 2012, 04:22 AM   #110
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

"Mortally offended?" No, but I will be back to respond.
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Old September 24 2012, 04:55 AM   #111
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

UFO wrote: View Post

[Rant]For me Star Trek is a space opera not a soap opera. The Uhura relationship with Spock ruins his character. Not that it isn’t being wrecked in other ways, obviously. Spock had a (mostly) impervious and semi detached mystique. It was his thing. If you don’t appreciate at that, fine. But why stuff things up for those who do? Surely there are other characters who aren’t so unique and wouldn’t be as badly, well, "compromised" by an injection of extraneous emotional claptrap? If such is deemed to be "needed" of course. I just don’t get it. Someone goes to the trouble of coming up with one of the most interesting and iconic characters ever and all most people want to do is drag it back to being little different to a production model human being. Bloody philistines![/Rant]
That was the whole point of TOS Spock, dragging him back into being a human being. That's the way it was written. He had several infatuations, whether you want to blame them on spores or other breakdowns to his Vulcan control the stories were about the breakdown of that control. The appeal of the character over the decades was that underneath the logical exterior he had needs. Even Kirk said, "of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most... human."

And with all that he will ALWAYS be different than a "production model human being". But he does have love, love for Kirk, attraction to women, needs for connection. It makes sense too that a younger Spock would be less rigid about such matters.
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Old September 24 2012, 07:37 AM   #112
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
JJ's face is making me queasy.
Oh, come on. He's cute.
Afraid I'll have to disagree on that point. He's not hideous, but hardly cute. A very average looking man I'd say.

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Why would that be? Could it be because then she might not break up "the big three" or something of that nature, or is there another reason?
Doubtful. In the Real Universe they've gone through hell together and always come out the other side as a trio. I doubt a single woman could split them up, unless they turn her into a bit of a tramp, vying for the affections of all three, but that would destroy the elegance and beauty of the character that Ms Nichols originally brought to life.

Granted it is an alternate universe, so maybe they will just become a petty, bickering bunch of hormonal teenagers, who can be be split apart by a skirt.

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
I don't see what makes Spock a poor choice compared to Scotty or Sulu. And as far as the 2009 movie goes, she (Zoe) didn't and I think wouldn't have had the kind of chemistry with Pegg or Cho that she had with Quinto.
It's a relationship that has no background to it. They just threw it onscreen and was kind of like 'where did that come from?' Seeing as she had little/no screen time with Scotty or Sulu its hard to judge on how they would get along. Personally I never saw much chemistry between Spock and Uhura.

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Their story together makes the most sense, but I'd still like your feedback. I'm interested to know why you think she'd be better with other people.
Their backstory? Where he was a professor and she a student who seduced/was seduced by him? Only then to throw a hissy fit and use her highly unprofessional relationship to her advantage to get a better posting? That's very appropriate.

One of the biggest niggles for me with the Spock/Uhura thing is that it makes him too emotional. Spock's two halves fought against one another, as he tried to follow the Vulcan lifestyle of logic and detachment (which on the whole he did in TOS). But here we see him having a few tender moments with a subordinate, as well as kissing her on the transporter platform, when the standard Vulcan sign of intimacy is a couple touching fingertips--surely she would know this and not want to overly embarrass him in front of the Acting Captain.

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Right, and that was my point. You can easily assume that she would have been a linguist based off of what you did see
It is a logical assumption to make.

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
so why would it be so hard to also easily assume that Spock and Uhura could have been a couple if circumstances were different based off of what you did see?
They could have been a couple if circumstances had been different, then again so could her and Kirk (if she hadn't been quite as stuck up in the bar), or her and anyone else.

My underlying problem is that, while they are trying to flesh out characters who weren't developed or used as much as they could have been in TOS and the original movies, all they could think of for her was to make a love interest? Nurse Chapel is going to be seriously pissed!
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Old September 24 2012, 07:58 AM   #113
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UFO wrote: View Post

It felt forced to me in TFF it figures in the Abrams' verse they didn't even interact in that movie.
You do realise the writers invented what went on in ST09 and could have made different choices?
That's very true, and it was true with TOS as well. In TOS different choices could have been made--heck, would have been made in some cases if it had not been for the times...

This is an alternate reality, so everything's not going to be the same.


However I will grant you that nuScotty didn't work well, period. Sulu was a possibility though, especially for those who will grab hold of any precedent (Mirror Universe) in a storm.
She just seems more like she'd get along with Spock, though. Of course, this is coming down to preferences, just like you not preferring the couple, but they seemed to be built for each other, and reading what Nichelle said, that impression is not an accident. The reboot team merely built on that.

Malaika wrote: View Post
to be fair,BobOrci was replying to a Spock/Uhura hater who had previously said that her relationship with Spock ruined her character. In context, that's why he said "her relationship with Spock" in his counter-argument
Unlike Spock/Uhura Fan, I don’t think that makes it sound any better. A knee jerk reaction like that probably gives a truer indication of how she is viewed. It certainly reinforces what comes across in the movie.
Okay, but that's not what came across in the movie, at least not to me. In the movie, I never got an impression of a "big 3," and that's what we were talking about in Mr. Orci's quote, her taking Bones' place in the "big 3." In the movie, it looked more like "2 and 2." Spock and Uhura were together, while Kirk and Bones were really close.

And my knee-jerk reaction was based off of a quote out of context, not the movie, so it doesn't indicate much about Uhura and how she is viewed in the movie, at least not to me.



I mean, he doesn't even pull it out of the fire. He actually goes on to say the reason she is "MORE" in ST09 than she was in TOS is because of who she is "sharing her affection with"!
Oh and Spock is the "… moral (sic) center of the show …"?! Mr Not-this-time? My main problem is trying to find the moral centre of the movie. How can I ever thank him? Ah, perhaps he thinks morals are restricted to how many people you sleep with? That would explain a lot.
Or the number of people you don't sleep with. She turned Kirk down, remember?

I think the "more" is building up for her. They made her a xenolinguistics specialist instead of just a comm officer. That implies (to me) that she'll have more to do when their 5 year mission starts. And yes, she also gets to have a love life, which allows us to see the personal and maybe softer side of the character. That's nice too. People are more than just their jobs.

This was an origins film, and so they didn't have a lot of time for the other characters past Kirk mainly, with Spock and some Scotty. Everybody else got a one or two minutes of exposition, if that. That's why I hope that the next film goes a little deeper with the whole crew.

The moral center of the film, if I had to pick just one thing, would be the scene where Kirk offers Nero help, even though this man tried to destroy his world and did destroy another, and even though this man is the reason why he doesn't have a father, because it's the right thing to do.


Malaika wrote: View Post
"If you think Uhura was sexualized because that is all we could think of to make her relevant, then you are having sexist thoughts for not wondering the same about Spock
... - Roberto Orci, (writer/producer for the rebooted Trek movies) referring to Uhura
Not to put too fine a point on it, but that’s utter rubbish. We clearly see Uhura doing the typical female thing of "supporting her man". He initiates nothing that I can recall (at least that is similar to TOS). And I don't believe it was Spock giving "moral support" before Uhura went off to save the day, etc.

And to think that despite the above it isn’t even Uhura who takes the biggest hit.

[Rant]For me Star Trek is a space opera not a soap opera. The Uhura relationship with Spock ruins his character. Not that it isn’t being wrecked in other ways, obviously. Spock had a (mostly) impervious and semi detached mystique. It was his thing. If you don’t appreciate at that, fine. But why stuff things up for those who do?
Ah, "those who do" have TOS. And even then, I don't think Spock was that one dimensional. If he had truly been completely "detached," then where did his friendship and emotional ties with Kirk and Bones come from? Had he really been the way I've heard him described, the character would have been as dull as cardboard and as forgettable as having a plain bagel for breakfast three weeks ago.

There was always something underneath. That was what made him interesting. And that's what I'm glad to see it looks like they're exploring with him.


Surely there are other characters who aren’t so unique and wouldn’t be as badly, well, "compromised" by an injection of extraneous emotional claptrap? If such is deemed to be "needed" of course. I just don’t get it. Someone goes to the trouble of coming up with one of the most interesting and iconic characters ever and all most people want to do is drag it back to being little different to a production model human being. Bloody philistines![/Rant]
"Someone" didn't do it; it was a collaborative effort (Roddenberry, writers, producers, and Mr. Nimoy himself).

"Compromised" is such an interesting word here. What's the compromise? Showing a little of what he's capable of emotionally with someone that isn't Kirk or McCoy?

With copious apologies to everyone I have just mortally offended of course.
No apologies necessary. While I disagree with you, I do appreciate your input here.
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Old September 24 2012, 08:27 AM   #114
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
JJ's face is making me queasy.
Oh, come on. He's cute.
Afraid I'll have to disagree on that point. He's not hideous, but hardly cute. A very average looking man I'd say.
Different strokes.


Doubtful. In the Real Universe they've gone through hell together and always come out the other side as a trio.
And by "Real," you mean the other fake one.


I doubt a single woman could split them up, unless they turn her into a bit of a tramp, vying for the affections of all three, but that would destroy the elegance and beauty of the character that Ms Nichols originally brought to life.
But here's the thing: They're not together. That's not how things started out in the alternate universe, and Kirk and Spock probably wouldn't have ever bothered with each other had it not been for Prime Spock. Who is together starting out in the alternate reality? Kirk and Bones are best friends, and I doubt anything will change that. And, Spock and Uhura are in love. I believe they could go through hell and back and still come out as a pair.

The scenario you brought up for Uhura would never happen, at least not canonically, so I won't address it.

Granted it is an alternate universe, so maybe they will just become a petty, bickering bunch of hormonal teenagers, who can be be split apart by a skirt.
Oh, wow, another thing I won't address because they're not teenagers, or hormonal or petty (from what I can tell), and again, there's nothing for a "skirt" to split up. Calling Uhura a "skirt" is fairly disrespectful, I might add.


It's a relationship that has no background to it. They just threw it onscreen and was kind of like 'where did that come from?' Seeing as she had little/no screen time with Scotty or Sulu its hard to judge on how they would get along. Personally I never saw much chemistry between Spock and Uhura.
The background was implied, but perhaps we'll see some flashbacks that give more details. We'll have to disagree on the chemistry because I saw it jumping off the charts.


Their backstory? Where he was a professor and she a student who seduced/was seduced by him? Only then to throw a hissy fit and use her highly unprofessional relationship to her advantage to get a better posting? That's very appropriate.
Why does it have to be a "seduction?" They could have just slowly fallen in love over the years. It could have started out harmless and then became something more.

Their relationship had nothing to do with her posting. She earned it, and that's all she pointed out. Being logical, Spock had to agree.

One of the biggest niggles for me with the Spock/Uhura thing is that it makes him too emotional. Spock's two halves fought against one another, as he tried to follow the Vulcan lifestyle of logic and detachment (which on the whole he did in TOS). But here we see him having a few tender moments with a subordinate, as well as kissing her on the transporter platform, when the standard Vulcan sign of intimacy is a couple touching fingertips--surely she would know this and not want to overly embarrass him in front of the Acting Captain.
I think they did touch fingertips, but it wasn't embarrassing because of the high emotion of the moment. His planet had been destroyed and he'd just lost his mother. I'm sure he didn't give a damn about what anyone thought. Uhura was the only woman (much like he said about Earth being the only home) he had left, and he was leaving to possibly not come back. You talk about TOS, but Vulcan was never destroyed in that timeline, so I'm not sure that Spock ever had to deal with emotions that were that strong at such a young age. It's just not the same. I don't think he was too emotional at all. Vulcans can and do feel.

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Right, and that was my point. You can easily assume that she would have been a linguist based off of what you did see
It is a logical assumption to make.

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
so why would it be so hard to also easily assume that Spock and Uhura could have been a couple if circumstances were different based off of what you did see?
They could have been a couple if circumstances had been different, then again so could her and Kirk (if she hadn't been quite as stuck up in the bar), or her and anyone else.

My underlying problem is that, while they are trying to flesh out characters who weren't developed or used as much as they could have been in TOS and the original movies, all they could think of for her was to make a love interest? Nurse Chapel is going to be seriously pissed!
But that's not all they could think of. They also thought of making her a xenolinguistics specialist, and I imagine that will come into play with this next film. And when it comes to this Spock? Chapel who???
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Old September 24 2012, 01:00 PM   #115
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post

Doubtful. In the Real Universe

prime universe

joining Ufo and Bry_Sinclair replies to answer (since they pretty much said the same things):
UFO:
It certainly wasn’t the "What the hell’s going on here! That makes no sense what-so-ever" variety of shock in ST09.
The Uhura/Scotty thing certainty WAS a big "What the hell’s going on here! That makes no sense what-so-ever" for me and many other fans that thought the same thing for pretty much the same reasons you're now using against ST09.
Spock/Uhura became very popular after ST09, I can't say the same about Uhura/Scotty after TFF.

And I see what you're trying to do with the comment about Uhura flirting with Spock as her being just playful, it just adds even more double standard in the whole Spock/Uhura vs Uhura/Scotty argument:
She still had, in text, flirting scenes with SPOCK, unlike Scotty. So she showed, to some degree, an interest in him (he also did teach her how to play the vulcan lyre and he complimented her). Nichelle Nichols seems to agree with that as she clearly stated more than once that there was a connection between Uhura and Spock and they were similar about some things. She also stated that Gene Roddenberry had wanted to create a romantic relationship between those characters (and this can explain the early scenes in the series) but he could never do that because her character is POC.
Was the same ever said about Uhura/Scotty? Let me think about it... NO! They're invented by Star trek V only and that's all.
And yet you find it believable that they'd suddenly develop a romantic interest in each other (in the prime universe and the circumstances of the prime universe) all the while you don't find it believable that the same could have happened between Spock and Uhura or that they could fall in love under the difference circumstances of the alternative universe where they're in.

as for the influence of Sybok, I'm not the one inventing it. Even memory alpha, canon source, states that.
The scene between Scotty/Uhura at the beginning could be interpreted as them being long time friends which is what they were, or using your own words, Uhura being naturally Uhura. It can be either way.
It was only after Syboc put his influence that Uhura tried to seduce Scotty who rejected her advances as he understood that she wasn't herself.
After that, their romance was dropped so whatever happened between them it happened off screen and ended there.



Bry_sinclair
It's a relationship that has no background to it. They just threw it onscreen and was kind of like 'where did that come from?'
and Uhura-Scotty in TFF had background?
you pretty much summarized my reaction to them when I watched that movie. And really, that's the main criticism I had always read people writing about that Uhura/Scotty thing.
No wonder why that thing between them was completely dropped in the next movie.

Where was the connection between Uhura and Scotty and when she had showed some romantic interest for him prior TFF?

Point is, AT LEAST Spock and Uhura were showed having some kind of attraction even in TOS how a relationship between them (in the alternative reality) can be less believable than Uhura/Scotty who really had no hint of romantic interest neither in TOS and even less in ST09?

In short, I can understand all your criticism for Spock/Uhura but you lose me when you put Uhura/Scotty in the picture because something in the argument seems absolutely double standard (just like the whole "Uhura is reduced to a love interest" if she's paired up with Spock but everything is fine if she's paired up with any other guy). I fail to see any coherence in this argument. I don't see this better development that Uhura/Scotty apparently got from TFF writers nor I can see how they're more believable than Spock/Uhura.
Furthermore, it's a relationship between Spock/Uhura that is explored in the alternative reality so, unlike TFF and some Uhura/Scotty fans, JJ isn't retconning TOS talking about invisible hints of a relationship between them.

Honestly, it seems to me that many took interest in the Uhura/Scotty thing only after ST09 when Uhura became Spock's girlfriend and many liked the Spock/Uhura's romance.


Their backstory? Where he was a professor and she a student who seduced/was seduced by him?
we don't know their backstory (unless you read the novels and those contradict what you're saying here anyway) so everything is assumption based on what we saw in the movie and my impression isn't that their relationship was based on "lust".
They're both adult people so I don't find it so unbelievable that in those four years where he was her teacher and then they worked together (she was his teaching assistant) a friendship could be formed between them that eventually became something more.

If one can find it believable that Spock and Kirk went from hating each other/trying to kill each other to friendsforever in a matter of two minutes of screen time, then it shouldn't require such a suspension of disbelief to find it believable that Spock could start a relationship with someone that he knew since years and that he admired.

This article written by Kevin Lauderdale for the star trek magazine seems to have the same opinion:
http://spockanduhura.tumblr.com/post...o-as-spock-zoe

in particular I agree with this observation:
"Though he is a Starfleet Academy instructor, and she a cadet, they are undeniably romantically-linked. We don’t know when their relationship started, but she had been one of his “top students”. Given their positions, that they allowed the relationship to begin at all tells us how strongly they must have felt for each other from the start. Being found guilty of “fraternization” would have seriously harmed their careers, if not earned them both dishonorable discharges. Challenging authority to that degree means that they shared more than a mere infatuation. Feelings aside, it seems likely that two people of such intelligence, and with such devotion to their professions, waited at least until they were no longer in a direct student-teacher relationship to become involved."
Only then to throw a hissy fit and use her highly unprofessional relationship to her advantage to get a better posting? That's very appropriate.
That's not what the scene was about IMO. I see a woman who had earned her place on the enterprise and didn't want her relationship with Spock to influence her job. He was wrong and he knew that. Uhura didn't use their relationship in her argument. She proposed the facts that are her skills that had made her earn that place and Spock didn't even try to neglect those facts. He was the one that put their relationship in the argument not her.
Actually, Kirk was the one who got aboard the enterprise even though he wasn't supposed to be there and he wasn't assigned to that ship.
You're implying that Uhura used her relationship with Spock in order to get on the best ship and yet the one who actually got on the best ship using his personal relationships with other crew members (in that case McCoy) is Kirk. McCoy didn't act professional and Kirk cheated.. twice. Of course, though, no one has a problem with it because it was convenient and yet Uhura gets crucified for something that she didn't even do. Talk about hypocrisy and sexism.

We can further add arguments to this double standard you are having here. Like Uhura replacing the previous communications officer because she was more qualified than him while Kirk became the captain only because Spock was emotionally compromised and he got on the ship, to begin with, only because McCoy cheated and helped him using his privileges as a doctor.



One of the biggest niggles for me with the Spock/Uhura thing is that it makes him too emotional.
because Spock choking Kirk to death or acting as a jerk for the most part of the movie is not too emotional. Very vulcan indeed.
Of course the public display of affection is a bad thing but the public display of violence it totally fine and in character for TOS Spock.


But here we see him having a few tender moments with a subordinate, as well as kissing her on the transporter platform, when the standard Vulcan sign of intimacy is a couple touching fingertips--surely she would know this and not want to overly embarrass him in front of the Acting Captain.
ehm... according to the script and the novelization of the movie Spock was the one who actually initiated the kiss. She was just giving him a device that could help him talk in romulan and he kissed her. So, no she didn't force anyone there. Spock is fully capable of making his own decisions and have his own feelings I don't think that evil Uhura brainwashed the vulcan and forced him into an embarrassing display of affection or a relationship, to begin with.
That people still insist blaming her is funny to me.
With all the criticism I read on that scene and people having a problem with it and Uhura it's ironical that the only person that didn't have a problem with it or her affection was Spock himself, the vulcan. Coincidence? think not.
He didn't seem "embarrassed" to me. The very opposite. TBH it seemed that he didn't give a damn about Kirk or any other person watching him there.
Can't blame him. For what he knew it was the last time he was seeing her forgive him if he wanted to kiss his girlfriend one last time before going on a suicide mission. It's not like he could have a private moment with her alone in his quarters.
Top of that, let's not forget that this all happened after his mother had died in front of him, his mother to whom, most likely, he never fully expressed his love to. This also happened after his father, his 100% vulcan father, had admitted loving his mother and it essentially was an absolution for Spock.



My underlying problem is that, while they are trying to flesh out characters who weren't developed or used as much as they could have been in TOS and the original movies, all they could think of for her was to make a love interest? Nurse Chapel is going to be seriously pissed!
my problem is that this isn't the impression I got by watching the movie.
Her relationship with Spock was only a part of her storyline and it was no different than McCoy being Kirk's best friend who supported him through the movie (unlike Uhura who didn't support Kirk and she represented the respect that he had to earn and he earned by the end of the movie).
I never see people complaining about McCoy getting reduced to Kirk's friend only because, of course, he's McCoy but on the other hand everything Uhura did in the movie is conveniently minimized only because she comforted her boyfriend. It doesn't matter if her character had been long introduced way before we got to know that she and Spock had a relationship. By that moment Uhura was the girl who had been one of the top students at the academy, a girl that had intercepted a message that essentially saved everyone, a girl that replaced the chief communications officer of the enterprise because she could speak 3 different romulan dialects while he couldn't even tell the difference between chinese and japanese, a girl that alerted the vulcan people through all channels when Chekov realized that Nero created a black hole in the planet.

I think that it's the fans that are reducing her to a love interest not the writers.
I also think that the real problem here is SPOCK not Uhura. The actual problem is the fact that Spock does have a girlfriend and some people don't like it because of reasons. It has nothing to do with Uhura. Furthermore, if people claim to have absolutely no issues with Uhura being paired up with any other character but Spock, this argument invalidates itself and makes absolutely no sense.
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Old September 24 2012, 01:19 PM   #116
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

This thread needs more loveliness..

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Old September 24 2012, 01:22 PM   #117
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Spock/Uhura Fan: I just read the whole page. I may have repeated some of the things that you already said because I didn't have the time to read the whole discussion when I was writing my own reply, sorry for that. Anyway I agree with you.The more I read this discussion the more it seems copied and pasted from other sites and threads here, frankly. I may inadvertently repeat things that other people had said in other discussions because I've read the same discussion in other threads and the anti S/U anti Uhura arguments are always the same. And I hate to repeat things.
By the way, it's going off topic here since the OP had asked who liked Spock/Uhura too.


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Old September 24 2012, 01:48 PM   #118
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

MORE LOVELINESS

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Old September 24 2012, 02:29 PM   #119
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post


But here's the thing: They're not together. That's not how things started out in the alternate universe, and Kirk and Spock probably wouldn't have ever bothered with each other had it not been for Prime Spock.

With all this talk about whatever the S/U relationship had background or was or not was believable I'm wondering where is this oh so believable, realistic and well written development for the core relationship of the story: Kirk/Spock.
That is, ultimately, the relationship I was, surprisingly (since their friendship is what I loved in TOS and what I expected to love in ST09 too.. like a given), less interested with by the end of the movie. Why? Because their plot was absolutely contrived to me.
Spock and Uhura/Kirk and McCoy do knew each other since years, whatever the nature of those relationships was (one romantic and one platonic friendship) they seemed more believable to me than two alpha males characters who despised each other for 95% of the movie but suddenly decided to be friends just because the future version of one of the characters came from another reality and said that they were friends in another time and place under totally different circustances.
Kirk and Spock went from absolutely hating each other to suddenly becoming friends.Their friendship is totally taken for granted without any actual believable development in that direction from the writers' part. They simply assume that you will like it and find their story believable just because it's Kirk/Spock and people already like them from TOS. But the thing is: this is not TOS. It's alternative reality, it's the story from the start whatever happened in TOS it doesn't count here, it didn't happen to these characters. You have to make them friends not just tell them that they have to be friends. And the writers made them enemies for the most part of the movie they can't expect me to believe that Spock, all logic and facts, has to believe that "it's destiny" and he can suddenly like this guy who had insulted him and humiliated him in front of the whole crew just to take his place as the captain of the ship.
All their issues magically vanished.

It's like the fact that Kirk got promoted as the captain in the end regardless if it made sense for starfleet or not.
Neither Kirk or Spock were perfect but for what I know, Spock saved earth (did they forget that he almost died doing so?) and he was second in command when Kirk was still a cadet who got aboard the Enterprise just because his friend MCCoy helped him. Kirk's supposed intuitions were the result of: 1) accidentally hearing what Uhura had discovered 2) Spock prime essentially telling him what he had to do.
Not to mention that vulcan got destroyed and the acting captain, Spock, was emotionally compromised (who wasn't on that ship?)
He earned his place, to some degree, but how much of that was just luck? Has Kirk actually proved to be more qualified than the others? I think he didn't even get the time.
Was it fair that he got all the credit?
I don't think so but it's fiction and sometimes it works like that. If one is too picky nothing about this movie was truly well developed and believable.
If one is picky, there are many things about Spock's character in the movie that could be considered OOC and they have nothing to do with Uhura or his scenes with her. They're accepted because they're convenient, because people wanted him to end up where he was in TOS not matter how it happened and if that was in character.


Who is together starting out in the alternate reality? Kirk and Bones are best friends, and I doubt anything will change that. And, Spock and Uhura are in love. I believe they could go through hell and back and still come out as a pair.
no, Kirk and Spock will magically forget about these people because it's destinyyy, they have to be friends and they can't have other relationships or, god forbid, care about other people more.
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Old September 24 2012, 03:44 PM   #120
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

This may sound a little weird, but here goes: I say Spock's story in STXI is an analogy for a closeted homosexual coming out. He has emotions, which his people see as extremely distasteful. He can't supress them as well as they do, but he TRIES to live up to his rigid society's expectations of emotionlessness. He acts like he doesn't have them in public.

Uhura, she's his secret release for his emotions. Their relationship is an improper and secret student-teacher one, surrogate for a secret gay one.

After his mother died and his world destroyed, Spock cracks, and "comes out" to his father (Amanda always knew, and didn't care, "whatever you do, you will always have a proud mother"), saying this is it, he can't bottle this shit up anymore, he has emotions and that's that. And Sarek says not to try, and that he's proud of him.

Spock and Uhura smooch on the transporter pad in front of everyone, Spock uses Uhura's "secret" first name. He's out now, being what he really is and wants to be, and not what his society expects.


...that's what me, a straight guy, saw. Am I the only one?
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