RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,375
Posts: 5,356,907
Members: 24,626
Currently online: 633
Newest member: Nostromov

TrekToday headlines

The Gene Roddenberry Project Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Moore: No Deep Space Nine Regrets
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Pegg Star Wars Rumor
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 24 2012, 02:18 AM   #31
MarsWeeps
Commander
 
MarsWeeps's Avatar
 
Location: Outside of Space/Time
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Timo wrote: View Post
Now, it could well be assumed that there is a central turboshaft in Kirk's ship, right at ship centerline, climbing all the way to the bridge. And then there's a little side branch that ends at the door... Perfect for the "taxi rank" system where multiple cabs are waiting, and one pulls to the doors whenever somebody needs a ride down while another remains waiting.
This is exactly what I believe. I could never accept the "35 degree offset" bridge explanation. It just seems a poorly contrived theory of why the turbo shaft as seen from the outside of the ship sits at the rear of the bridge, while the internal doors are offset from the rear. I always envisioned a "staging area" where at least one extra turbolift waits in place for someone to enter from the bridge. It also slides off to the side when another lift arrives.
MarsWeeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 02:22 AM   #32
MarsWeeps
Commander
 
MarsWeeps's Avatar
 
Location: Outside of Space/Time
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

And...while we are on the subject of turbolifts...what are the purpose of the handles? Sometimes people seem to grab and twist them, other times they don't. Are they some type of manual control?
MarsWeeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 05:40 AM   #33
sbk1234
Rear Admiral
 
sbk1234's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
sbk1234 wrote: View Post
I suppose there could have been special "medical turbolifts", dedicated only for medical emergencies. Appropriate size, etc. for fitting a stretcher.

Was there ever an episode in TOS where we would have needed to see one?
All the (limited) canon evidence (and mostly, if not all, from the movies and other shows) suggests that the tubes won't accommodate a car larger than the one that was used. I think T'Girl's anti-grav stretcher is a fine idea.

I realize this isn't a strong argument, but it's the best I've got. In Star Trek 5, the turboshafts certainly seemed wide enough to handle a larger car.
Or there could have been the larger, dedicated sick bay shaft.
__________________
In all the history of the world, a riot has NEVER broken out at a Sci-Fi convention.

"It's a fucking TV show!" - Gary Lockwood
sbk1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 05:51 AM   #34
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

sbk1234 wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
sbk1234 wrote: View Post
I suppose there could have been special "medical turbolifts", dedicated only for medical emergencies. Appropriate size, etc. for fitting a stretcher.

Was there ever an episode in TOS where we would have needed to see one?
All the (limited) canon evidence (and mostly, if not all, from the movies and other shows) suggests that the tubes won't accommodate a car larger than the one that was used. I think T'Girl's anti-grav stretcher is a fine idea.

I realize this isn't a strong argument, but it's the best I've got. In Star Trek 5, the turboshafts certainly seemed wide enough to handle a larger car.
Appeal to Star Trek V is it's own special category of arguments.
Or there could have been the larger, dedicated sick bay shaft.
Yeah, but it didn't go to the bridge, one of the most important places on the whole ship. And the way those panels kept shorting out all the time...

Plus, you'd think that moving heavy over-sized equipment around would be an issue too, especially in an era without intra-ship beaming. I supposeŚmaybeŚthat the no intra-ship beaming limitation might not rule out beaming from, say, one cargo transporter to another on the same ship, though. Same for moving people from transporter room to transporter room, perhaps?
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 06:51 AM   #35
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Why is it we all assume the turbolifts can only travel vertically or horizontally.
I think mainly because the turboshaft network is portrayed as perfectly rectangular in graphics from ST:TMP on. But no doubt there are exceptions here and there - and the TOS ship certainly is famous for angled features such as the chutes Scotty is always climbing up to access this system or that. And a turboshaft following the contours of the connecting neck would indeed make a lot of sense. Although the rows of windows there place rather strict limitations on that, and would better match the idea of a perfectly vertical shaft just ahead of the vertical stack of windows. Otherwise, there would be very little space between a window and the turboshaft.

That could explain the long turbolift ride in "The Enterprise Incident" when Spock takes the female Romulan commander to ... the cargo hold in the engineering hull?
Whether we see a long turbolift ride there, or merely a long, dialogue-heavy scene that begins with a turbolift ride, is something for the viewer to decide. Certainly the signs of ongoing turbolift travel, such as visibly flashing lights in the background or distinct turbo-travel noises, disappear almost immediately after our protagonist and antagonist board the lift.

It just seems a poorly contrived theory of why the turbo shaft as seen from the outside of the ship sits at the rear of the bridge, while the internal doors are offset from the rear.
We have strong reasons to insist that bridge turbolift station placement in the TMP-refitted ship is completely arbitrary and can be changed by two men with antigrav grapplers in half an hour; any position from "directly aft" to "directly to both sides" is available. It thus doesn't really pay off to insist that the TOS ship bridge turbolift placement would be nailed down by some external feature...

If we interpret that stern-facing bump as a turboshaft, then we could argue it's an extension of the main turboshaft up from the bridge level, intended to enable the lift network to be connected to another, from a fellow starship or a starbase. And wherever the bridge turbolift would be located, it would be off to the side of this shaft, so as not to block the passage.

...what are the purpose of the handles? Sometimes people seem to grab and twist them, other times they don't. Are they some type of manual control?
Many episodes would allow us to interpret them as "dead man's handles" of some sort: you can't give the lift a voice command unless you simultaneously twist a handle to indicate you really mean it. That way, you won't be crushed by the doors if you discuss last evening's exciting game of BRIDGE while stepping aboard, or spread the latest rumors about what Ensign Jawline and Yeoman Softfocus were doing at SICKBAY while stepping off.

However, this doesn't cover all the bases, especially the ones where nobody gives a voice command. OTOH, the handle doesn't appear to be a convenient selector for complex orders such as "as close to Cabin 7G221 as possible" or "Deck 16, forward port station". Perhaps the system is smarter than we give it credit for? Perhaps the turbolifts run on regular, predictable routes like a bus, unless you specify a destination, and the handles are for activating or overriding the bus functionality.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 07:13 AM   #36
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
moving heavy over-sized equipment around
When it come to equipment and turbolifts, I remember this from history.

When the German scientists were designing the A4 rocket (V2), one of the criteria was it had to be able, laying on it's side on a railcar, to pass through all European railroad tunnels.

It seem to me that the majority of the equipment (some exceptions) aboard the Enterprise would be capable of being disassembled to the point that it would be able to fit inside of a turbolift car. The turbolift is the ship's transportation system, that and the corridors. If you wanted to move something from the shuttle flight deck up to the bow of the saucer section, you pretty much stuck using the turbolift. Things aboard the ship will be specifically designed to enter the lift car. Everything will come apart.

There will be exceptions of course.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 07:21 AM   #37
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Timo wrote: View Post
That could explain the long turbolift ride in "The Enterprise Incident" when Spock takes the female Romulan commander to ... the cargo hold in the engineering hull?
Whether we see a long turbolift ride there, or merely a long, dialogue-heavy scene that begins with a turbolift ride, is something for the viewer to decide. Certainly the signs of ongoing turbolift travel, such as visibly flashing lights in the background or distinct turbo-travel noises, disappear almost immediately after our protagonist and antagonist board the lift.
No, "the turbolift in motion" sound is audible for a full minute, almost the whole time Spock and the Romulan commander are in the lift. You and I had the same conversation last year, over in Trek Tech, remember? The online link to the episode appears to have moved now, though.
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
To be fair, there was no turbolift "ride" as such. There was merely a long scene inside a turbolift - without any visual or auditory indication that the lift was moving. Basically a repeat of the Kirk/Saavik scene of ST2, then...

Timo Saloniemi
Wrong.

See The Enterprise Incident online at the official location, at http://www.startrek.com/watch_episod...q4YtPa3oAVhwuc. (You will have to endure some commercials to do so.) The turbo lift is in motion for a whole minute, beginning around 47:15. Spock says "Deck Two." The "turbolift in motion" sound cranks up, remains on for a full minute, and then winds down at the end of the ride. You can see the deck markers scrolling by when they are in the camera's field of view, for the first part of that minute. Only the most elaborate gesticulations of handwaving can make it seem otherwise. This was something I noticed over 30 years ago.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 08:31 AM   #38
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Sorry for the double post, but here's a few explanations that could explain "The Enterprise Incident deck two puzzle" in continuity, without considering it an error.
  1. The elevator system was unusually busy at that moment.
  2. Spock overrode the normal sequence, and took the elevator for a joyride, in order to talk to the commander for a minute.
  3. A cipher of some kind was automatically in effect, to prevent the Romulan commander from learning too much about the internal arrangement of the ship (cf "hours could seem like days").
  4. There was no cipher, but the elevator knew that in context "deck two" meant the second deck of sleeping quarters.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 08:45 AM   #39
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Or 5. the sound isn't related to turbolift movement as much as it is to the turbolift being inside the constantly humming network of shafts; the sound fades into the background when the doors are opened and ambient noises of another type drown it out.

Although I like the theory #2 best. Perhaps the waiting area for bridge turbolifts is below Deck 2 (and this somehow relates to how turbolifts were unusable below Deck 3 specifically in ST2:TWoK), and Spock simply holding the lift would have caused undue traffic jams for that reason?

Or then the waiting area is on Deck 2, and the noise comes from all those other lifts busily humming?

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 01:15 PM   #40
Maple Dog
Lieutenant Commander
 
Maple Dog's Avatar
 
Location: Montreal Canada
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Everything You Want To Know About The Turbolift
big image.
__________________
MapleDog's Blog
Maple Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 06:10 PM   #41
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: shore leave in La Baule, France
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Timo wrote: View Post
Why is it we all assume the turbolifts can only travel vertically or horizontally.
"I think mainly because the turboshaft network is portrayed as perfectly rectangular in graphics from ST:TMP on."
Well, according to Decker it's "a totally new Enterprise" and for whatever reasons they decided to do a rectangular turboshaft system on the new one, doesn't necessarily have to reflect on Kirk's previous Enterprise.

Timo wrote: View Post
"And a turboshaft following the contours of the connecting neck would indeed make a lot of sense. Although the rows of windows there place rather strict limitations on that, and would better match the idea of a perfectly vertical shaft just ahead of the vertical stack of windows. Otherwise, there would be very little space between a window and the turboshaft."
I apologize if I appear unable to follow you, but any connection between the location of the neck windows and the position of the turboshaft is entirely conjectural, isn't it?

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...rrorhd0064.jpg

Add to this that any vertical turboshaft would be cutting an already confined space into two. Again a diagonal shaft at the bow of the neck, would allow you to make the most of whatever little space there is to start with (bowling alley?). According to this studio set blueprint from Season Two (and Three)

http://www.trekcore.com/specials/alb...ge_Drawing.jpg

the only place there would be for a vertical turboshaft connecting straight to the bridge would be at the end of the corridor opposed to the door of engineering. How many times did we actually see this door (near the Jefferies tube) to be a turbolift?

Instead we have seen turbolifts near the transporter room and at both ends of the circular corridor which usually carry our protagonists straight to the bridge without any horizontal movement.

Wouldn't these rather and strongly suggest a diagonal turboshaft where the turbo shaft doors at the corridor ends either open to port or starboard while the transporter room one opens to the bow of the ship?

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 07:30 PM   #42
Grant
Fleet Captain
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
There's also no security protocol for the bridge turbo lift either. Anyone can go in there and they notice the intruder only when he steps on the bridge.
Yeah, insane Lazarus wandering around the ship.
Superhuman Khan with one fat guard--I'm sure all the other security guards were doing something so important they couldn't spare two.

The security guard in 'Dagger..' facing forward instead of facing the lift.

Sending one guard with decker---worst security teams---ever.
Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24 2012, 10:19 PM   #43
sbk1234
Rear Admiral
 
sbk1234's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Timo wrote: View Post
However, this doesn't cover all the bases, especially the ones where nobody gives a voice command. OTOH, the handle doesn't appear to be a convenient selector for complex orders such as "as close to Cabin 7G221 as possible" or "Deck 16, forward port station". Perhaps the system is smarter than we give it credit for? Perhaps the turbolifts run on regular, predictable routes like a bus, unless you specify a destination, and the handles are for activating or overriding the bus functionality.

Timo Saloniemi
I always figured that the turbolifts automatically took one to the the most direct course, based onthe information given. For example, if one says, "deck 5," the lift would stop at the closest lift station on deck 5 from where it started - taking into account maneuvering around other lift cars and such (which I still insist share shafts. At least some of the shafts could be made for larger traffic.) However, if you say "sickbay," or "transporter room 4," or "Dr. Noel's quarters", it will take you to the closest station to that location.
__________________
In all the history of the world, a riot has NEVER broken out at a Sci-Fi convention.

"It's a fucking TV show!" - Gary Lockwood
sbk1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 25 2012, 04:53 AM   #44
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

No, but you should see the line for the transporter

__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 25 2012, 08:03 AM   #45
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

^ The ship only has the one toilet.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.