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Old September 22 2012, 02:37 AM   #16
Christopher
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Don't forget but The Abode Of Life had Kirk and Spock holding The Cage-era lasers on the cover which was really odd...
Those weren't Cage-style lasers, but a generic sci-fi raygun design. Presumably the cover artist had no photo reference for phasers and just made something up. Again, remember, it wasn't as easy back then to come by photo reference for any given detail from Star Trek.


(I realize that Spock did handle a laser in The Cage, but Kirk was never in that pilot and when Kirk did show up in Where No Man Has Gone Before he never held a laser, instead he held that big heating coil-looking rifle---which would be cool to see on a cover someday!)
Although they used the same prop in the second pilot, they'd renamed them phasers by that point, because Roddenberry realized that it had been silly to call them lasers since lasers couldn't do what they did.


tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
I see that, but at the same time I wonder if that was maybe a decision by the artist, since it's down below the white lines on the cover (and in the 99 cover, it is blacked-out all together), so I wonder if the artist maybe painted it blue just to go with the rest of the colors knowing that it might've been cut off at that point?
I think it's most likely a photo reference issue again. Something's fishy about the choice of reference there, since it's strictly a 5-year mission novel and it makes no sense to show TWOK-era Spock on the cover. (Although several 5YM novels from the period had TMP uniforms on the covers, including Abode of Life, which was no doubt for promotional reasons.) Maybe that photo was just all Boris Vallejo had available to work from, or was what he was required to work from for the same promotional reasons -- and maybe he corrected the colors to something resembling the uniform Spock should've been wearing in the timeframe of the novel. Note that the shoulder strap is also missing and has been replaced with just a bit of silver piping. (Maybe the use of a TWOK-era uniform is what misled TenLubak into thinking it was Time for Yesterday, which was set shortly pre-TWOK.)

In fact, the image of Spock used on the Yesterday's Son cover is an identical pose to the one used on the TWOK novelization cover! I can't find out whether that cover was by Vallejo too, but clearly both covers used the same reference photo. Funny, those books have been around for three decades and I don't recall if I ever noticed that before.
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Old September 24 2012, 03:06 AM   #17
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

Christopher wrote: View Post
[T]he image of Spock used on the Yesterday's Son cover is an identical pose to the one used on the TWOK novelization cover! I can't find out whether that cover was by Vallejo too, but clearly both covers used the same reference photo.
I can't find any artist reference on any of the multiple copies of McIntyre's Wrath of Khan novelization in my collection (Pocket 1st, later Pocket, Gregg Press, Macdonald, SFBC...) but I'm pretty sure the cover art is by Boris. The style seems pretty unmistakable. I sent Vallejo a message on his website, asking if he painted it. I'll report back when (if?) he responds.
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Old September 24 2012, 03:08 AM   #18
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

Christopher wrote: View Post
tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Don't forget but The Abode Of Life had Kirk and Spock holding The Cage-era lasers on the cover which was really odd...
Those weren't Cage-style lasers, but a generic sci-fi raygun design. Presumably the cover artist had no photo reference for phasers and just made something up. Again, remember, it wasn't as easy back then to come by photo reference for any given detail from Star Trek.
I'm not sure he made the design up... it's always looked to me like a Sonic Fazer, a toy from the 1970s.
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Old September 24 2012, 03:36 AM   #19
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

^Good catch. I guess the artist grabbed whatever reference was available.

Although it's not as bad as the Battlestar Galactica Colonial Vipers chasing McCoy and Arrhae on the cover of The Romulan Way, or the upside-down Galactica itself on the TNG: Ghost Ship cover.
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Old September 24 2012, 03:52 AM   #20
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

Seriously? Wow! That is odd.
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Old September 24 2012, 10:31 AM   #21
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Good catch. I guess the artist grabbed whatever reference was available.

Although it's not as bad as the Battlestar Galactica Colonial Vipers chasing McCoy and Arrhae on the cover of The Romulan Way, or the upside-down Galactica itself on the TNG: Ghost Ship cover.
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Old September 26 2012, 01:48 AM   #22
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

Daddy Todd wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
[T]he image of Spock used on the Yesterday's Son cover is an identical pose to the one used on the TWOK novelization cover! I can't find out whether that cover was by Vallejo too, but clearly both covers used the same reference photo.
I can't find any artist reference on any of the multiple copies of McIntyre's Wrath of Khan novelization in my collection (Pocket 1st, later Pocket, Gregg Press, Macdonald, SFBC...) but I'm pretty sure the cover art is by Boris. The style seems pretty unmistakable. I sent Vallejo a message on his website, asking if he painted it. I'll report back when (if?) he responds.
Received this email today from Julie Bell:

Yes, that was painted by Boris! Thank you for asking.

Best wishes to you,

Julie and Boris

Sent from my iPhone



I responded with some fannish squeeing -- I've been a fan of Vallejo's work since I was in high school, when he did a series of covers for Philip Jose Farmer's World of Tiers paperbacks from Ace Books.
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Old September 26 2012, 02:08 AM   #23
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

So I guess Vallejo only had the one photo of Spock to work from c. 1982-3...
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Old March 10 2013, 05:49 PM   #24
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

Christopher wrote: View Post
My version of the post-TMP continuity includes Ex Machina, Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again, and parts 2-3 of DTI: Forgotten History. It is compatible with or makes reference to The Covenant of the Crown and The Better Man by Howard Weinstein, The Kobayashi Maru by Julia Ecklar, and The Captain's Daughter by Peter David (which is mostly post-TUC but includes portions set in the pre- and post-TMP eras). So you can treat those as a more-or-less consistent post-TMP continuity if you like.
I've scanned your annotations for you TOS novels and shorts and noticed that you make some continuity set-ups/fixes for stories like the Vulcan's series while making strong references to stories like Assignment Eternity, Unspoken Truth, Night Whispers, The TOS Section 31 novel, Home is the Hunter, First Frontier, The Rings of Time and various LA Graf novels. I was just wondering what you include in your Personal canon for the entire TOS era? In no way is this a question about your opinion of quality towards other writer's works. I'm just curious what you view as your TOS universe and what stories (in whole/ not peace parted) inform your past and future writings?

Thanks and have fun,
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Old March 10 2013, 05:57 PM   #25
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

That's a very interesting question.
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Old March 10 2013, 06:45 PM   #26
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

^I don't recall referencing Home is the Hunter in my books. I don't count it as part of the continuity, because it kills off Mr. Garrovick, who's still alive years later in In the Name of Honor.

I think the references in my books and annotations pretty much answer your question, Jsplinis. I don't really want to give an exhaustive list of what I do and don't count, since my references cover the most relevant ones, and otherwise it's the sort of thing where my choices and opinions can change over time.
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Old March 10 2013, 07:03 PM   #27
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

I understand your reasons for not wanting to list your canon. But let me just say how great it is that you take the time to respond to a very inquisitive fan like myself. Thanks.

About the Home is the Hunter reference, in your annotations for DTI #2 you wrote,


"43 Bonnie Prince Charlie is a hero from Scottish history, and Scott actually joins his rebellion in the time-travel novel Home is the Hunter by Dana Kramer-Rolls (set in the post-TMP era, so it would come after this novel). Isambard Kingdom Brunel was a great engineer of the Victorian era, and I'm aware of him mainly through the delightful alternate-history webcomic 2D Goggles."

I wasn't sure if that was just a nod to a fact in that novel or if it was an inclusion in your personal canon because of the way you mentioned its time placement relative to your book. Sorry I interpreted it wrong.

Thanks again,
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Old March 10 2013, 08:06 PM   #28
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

Maybe this is a losing battle, but the term is personal continuity. Canon, by definition, means the official version as opposed to alternative interpretations, so "personal canon" is an oxymoron.
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Old March 10 2013, 09:13 PM   #29
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Maybe this is a losing battle, but the term is personal continuity. Canon, by definition, means the official version as opposed to alternative interpretations, so "personal canon" is an oxymoron.
Sorry, hope I didn't offend
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Old March 10 2013, 09:16 PM   #30
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Re: Question: how many TMP era stories?

Nothing personal, just trying to clarify the word usage.

And no, acknowledging that Home is the Hunter used Bonnie Prince Charlie had nothing to do with personal continuity or anything of the sort. It was just a bit of trivia that I thought I'd mention. And while I personally don't count the novel, I don't want to dictate to anyone else what books they can or can't count.
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