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View Poll Results: ?
Scotty 43 45.74%
LaForge 13 13.83%
O'Brien 24 25.53%
Torres 5 5.32%
Tucker 9 9.57%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 23 2012, 10:30 AM   #61
Edit_XYZ
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Re: Best engineering chief?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Name one example.
That would be:
[Playful banter between two old friends, Kirk and Scotty.]
It was also the advice he gave to Geordi in 'Relics' - and he was shocked Geordi wasn't regularly inflating his timetables to make himself look good.
It was also corroborated by all the times when he needed unrealistically less time than he reported to his superiors for completing a task.
If that was a joke, well, Scotty put the joke into praxis repeatedly.

As for examples - watch TOS; you'll find plenty. I don't feel like going over TOS episodes just to entertain your butthurt.
Thank you, I've seen every TOS episode many times over. But at least we've established that you have no examples.
Your google fu is weak:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScottyTime
It even has a trope named after it.

Not that I need examples to prove Scotty's practice. 'Relics' fully establishes it.
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Old September 23 2012, 10:57 AM   #62
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Best engineering chief?

The only example on that TVTropes page allegedly from TOS that I see is from The Naked Time, only they got it wrong there. In fact, in that case, Spock figured out how to shorten the time, not Scotty, and Scotty's estimate on how long it would take to restart the engines was for real, for all he knew. Spock knew something Scotty didn't. So, sorry, it's you who have failed to provide any examples in TOS.

The TWOK example is deliberate code, so that doesn't count. The STV example lampoons the trope, but without Scotty having inflated his estimate.

For shits and giggles here's the scene from Relics, according to http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/230.htm:

LAFORGE: Adjust the frequency stabilisation on the main deflector dish. It's out of synch with the aft sensors.
SCOTT: Laddie, you need to phase-lock the warp fields within three percent or they'll become unstable.
LAFORGE: What?
SCOTT: Well look here. The warp field is
(the computer rejects his commands)
LAFORGE: We use a multiphase auto-containment field now. It's meant to operate above three percent.
SCOTT: Oh. Well, that would make the difference.
BARTEL: We can re start the engines in ten minutes, Commander.
LAFORGE: Thank you, Lieutenant.
SCOTT: I remember a time when the old Enterprise was spiralling in toward Psi two thousand.
LAFORGE: Thank you.
SCOTT: The Captain wanted to try a cold start of the warp engines. I told him that without a proper phase lock it would take at least thirty minutes You canna change the laws of physics, I told him, but he wouldn't believe me, so I had to come up with a new engine start-up routine. Do you know that your dilithium crystals are going to fracture?
[As I said, it was Spock, not Scotty, in The Naked Time, who figured out how to restart the engines faster. Scotty and Spock worked together to do it faster than Scotty would have known how to do it on his own. For whatever reason, Scotty kinda leaves that part out here.]
LAFORGE: We recomposite the crystals while they're still inside the articulation frame. Look, Mister Scott, I'd love to explain everything to you, but the Captain wants this spectrographic analysis done by thirteen hundred hours.
SCOTT: Do you mind a little advice? Starfleet captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way, but the secret is to give them only what they need, not what they want.
LAFORGE: Yeah, well I told the Captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour.
SCOTT: How long will it really take?
LAFORGE: An hour.
SCOTT: You didn't tell him how long it would really take, did you?
LAFORGE: Of course I did.
SCOTT: Oh, laddie, you've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker. Now listen
LAFORGE: Captain Scott. I've tried to be patient, I've tried to be polite. But I've got a job to do here, and quite frankly, you're in the way.
SCOTT: I was driving starships while your great-grandfather was still in diapers. I'd think you'd be a little grateful for a some help. I'll leave ye to work, Mister La Forge.
Point to me where Scotty advises La Forge to pad his time estimates. While Scotty's evidently surprised that La Forge hasn't learned to gauge when the captain needs something right away or whether it can wait, we never get to hear what Scotty's actual advice to La Forge is, because he cuts Scotty off.

It seems to me that the whole point here is to make sure that the captain knows not to cut the margins so close that nothing can save the ship. Scotty's trying to keep estimates conservative to protect the ship, not his reputation. It was couched in humor.

And anyway, Scotty never did this in TOS anyway, not that I know of. I'm eager to see whether anyone can produce an actual example.
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Old September 23 2012, 11:31 AM   #63
MacLeod
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Re: Best engineering chief?

You would also have to think Spock would have called Scotty on over estimating estimates.
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Old September 23 2012, 12:24 PM   #64
horatio83
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Re: Best engineering chief?

Geordi. He was a no-bullshit professional and a nice guy who worked well as a character without this emotional working class guy charisma of the other four chief engineers. When he had to take command of the ship he also did far better than Scotty or Tucker (I don't think that O'Brien or Torres were ever at the helm).
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Old September 23 2012, 12:28 PM   #65
NrobbieC
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Re: Best engineering chief?

horatio83 wrote: View Post
(I don't think that O'Brien or Torres were ever at the helm).
O'Brien was first seen as the Ent-D's helmsman iirc he was just called "conn"

He's also been seen at the helm of the Defiant.
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Old September 23 2012, 12:52 PM   #66
MacLeod
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Re: Best engineering chief?

horatio83 wrote: View Post
Geordi. He was a no-bullshit professional and a nice guy who worked well as a character without this emotional working class guy charisma of the other four chief engineers. When he had to take command of the ship he also did far better than Scotty or Tucker (I don't think that O'Brien or Torres were ever at the helm).
We saw Scotty in command of the Enterprise on numerous occasions. I think on the evidence we say he would have made a good Starship Captain.
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Old September 23 2012, 01:21 PM   #67
horatio83
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Re: Best engineering chief?

Like Tucker he lacked diplomatic skills and the vibe has always been that these guys feel more comfortable when they are down in engineering.
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Old September 23 2012, 03:19 PM   #68
Edit_XYZ
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Re: Best engineering chief?

CorporalCaptain

LaForge:
I told the captain I'd have it done in an hour.
Scotty: How long will it really take you?
LaForge: An hour!
Scotty: [flabbergasted] You dinnae tell him how long it would really take?!!
LaForge: Of course I did.
Scotty: Oh, laddie, you've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker. Now listen

Point to me where Scotty advises La Forge to pad his time estimates. While Scotty's evidently surprised that La Forge hasn't learned to gauge when the captain needs something right away or whether it can wait, we never get to hear what Scotty's actual advice to La Forge is, because he cuts Scotty off.
It's clear from the scene Scotty used to deliberately lie to his superior officers about the time needed to complete a task - a practice he considers desirable, in order to look good.
It's also clear Scotty was about to counsel Geordi to do the same in order to make people think of him as a "miracle worker'.

All you have is euphemisms and semantic irrelevancies. And fan-wank explanations for 'The naked time'.

And you think these constitute an argument. Cute.
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Last edited by Edit_XYZ; September 23 2012 at 04:27 PM.
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Old September 23 2012, 05:25 PM   #69
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Best engineering chief?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain

LaForge:
I told the captain I'd have it done in an hour.
Scotty: How long will it really take you?
LaForge: An hour!
Scotty: [flabbergasted] You dinnae tell him how long it would really take?!!
LaForge: Of course I did.
Scotty: Oh, laddie, you've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker. Now listen

Point to me where Scotty advises La Forge to pad his time estimates. While Scotty's evidently surprised that La Forge hasn't learned to gauge when the captain needs something right away or whether it can wait, we never get to hear what Scotty's actual advice to La Forge is, because he cuts Scotty off.
It's clear from the scene Scotty used to deliberately lie to his superior officers about the time needed to complete a task - a practice he considers desirable, in order to look good.
It's also clear Scotty was about to counsel Geordi to do the same in order to make people think of him as a "miracle worker'.

All you have is euphemisms and semantic irrelevancies. And fan-wank explanations for 'The naked time'.

And you think these constitute an argument. Cute.
Wrong.
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Old September 23 2012, 07:25 PM   #70
beamMe
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Re: Best engineering chief?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain

LaForge:
I told the captain I'd have it done in an hour.
Scotty: How long will it really take you?
LaForge: An hour!
Scotty: [flabbergasted] You dinnae tell him how long it would really take?!!
LaForge: Of course I did.
Scotty: Oh, laddie, you've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker. Now listen

Point to me where Scotty advises La Forge to pad his time estimates. While Scotty's evidently surprised that La Forge hasn't learned to gauge when the captain needs something right away or whether it can wait, we never get to hear what Scotty's actual advice to La Forge is, because he cuts Scotty off.
It's clear from the scene Scotty used to deliberately lie to his superior officers about the time needed to complete a task - a practice he considers desirable, in order to look good.
It's also clear Scotty was about to counsel Geordi to do the same in order to make people think of him as a "miracle worker'.

All you have is euphemisms and semantic irrelevancies. And fan-wank explanations for 'The naked time'.

And you think these constitute an argument. Cute.
That conversation between Scott and LaForge is just a continuation of the joke from TSFS between Scott and Kirk.
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Old September 23 2012, 08:15 PM   #71
CoveTom
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Re: Best engineering chief?

Mr_Homn wrote: View Post
Is o'brien even technically an engineering chief?
O'Brien's official title aboard Deep Space Nine was "Chief of Operations," which is essentially the same as "chief engineer" of a starship, given a different title presumably because you can't have an engineer without engines, which a station doesn't have.

I'm not sure if it's ever officially established in dialogue or not, but I'm pretty sure that once the Defiant was introduced, O'Brien was Chief Engineer of that ship as well. He was certainly in charge of engineering. There wasn't anyone else in evidence who could be filling the post. And it would be odd of they called him "Chief of Operations" when literally every other Starfleet vessel we've ever seen has a post named "Chief Engineer."

Regarding the OP's question, I think my vote would go toward O'Brien, with LaForge being a close second. O'Brien seemed to have an immense amount of technical skill and was also one of the most well-developed and well-rounded characters in all of Trek.

And, I'm sorry, I love the TOS crew including Scotty. But if we are to go by actual on-screen evidence, Scotty was not the miracle worker he's made out to be. More often than not, when Scotty performed an engineering miracle, Spock was there making it possible. Whether it was doing a cold restart of the engines in "The Naked Time," cross circuiting to B in "Obsession," or fixing the engine imbalance in TMP, Spock was more often than not the one providing the real solution to the problem.
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Old September 23 2012, 08:31 PM   #72
MacLeod
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Re: Best engineering chief?

^From a technical point of view it does, as an engine provides the power. A modern example would be a car enginge which burns a fuel which provides energy which is turned into a mecahnical motion. In ST inside of say diesel it uses Matter and Anti-Matter to provide energy.

The station has a power core which provides energy.
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Old September 23 2012, 10:05 PM   #73
Admiral James Kirk
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Re: Best engineering chief?

I gotta go with the brogue.

Scotty.

There is no comparison. He has no equal. And he's givin' it all he's got, Cap'n!
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Old September 25 2012, 05:44 AM   #74
Lt. LaForge
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Re: Best engineering chief?

Psst...LaForge can modulate ANYTHING into whatever he wants. I love it when he's trying to figure out a problem and starts questioning the computer, narrowing down solutions/problems. Such an underrated genius. He leaves all else in the dust.

Last edited by Lt. LaForge; September 25 2012 at 06:06 AM. Reason: Punctuation.
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Old September 25 2012, 06:21 PM   #75
CoveTom
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Re: Best engineering chief?

^ LaForge is an excellent engineer, but I think O'Brien is the better character. Which is why I picked O'Brien.
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