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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old September 22 2012, 11:25 AM   #31
CorporalCaptain
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
t_smitts wrote: View Post
The crew's surprised reaction to Ilia's arrival (especially Decker) makes far more sense if she was a last-minute replacement.
Except she'd already, presumably, been to Dr Chapel some time earlier - pre-flight medical assessments? - because Ilia "once mentioned" the significance of her Deltan headband.
From http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie1.html:

UHURA (OC): Transporter system fully repaired and functioning normally, sir.
SULU: Dock signals clear, Captain.
KIRK: Reply we are holding position awaiting final crew replacements.
UHURA: Aye sir. Transporter personnel reports the Navigator Lieutenant ...Ilia. She's already aboard, and en route to the bridge, sir. She's Deltan, sir.
ILIA: Lieutenant Ilia reporting for duty, sir.
KIRK: Welcome aboard, Lieutenant.
Sounds like Ilia is a last minute crew replacement who goes directly from the transporter room to the bridge, to me. I agree, it's plausible that she's replacing the female killed with Commander Sonak. As for when Christine heard Ilia mention wearing her headband?

CHAPEL (on viewscreen): I remember Lieutenant Ilia once mentioning that she wore this.
There's plenty of opportunity for Ilia and Chapel to talk off screen, such as right after the wormhole, when she's on her way somewhere in the corridor and crosses paths with Decker. However, I must say that "I remember [her] once mentioning" sounds like they've talked quite a bit over an extended period of time. That would kinda suggest that they've served together before the film starts. But when and where? Not on the Enterprise. Kirk doesn't seem to know her, and Decker hasn't seen her since he was on Delta IV. Perhaps Chapel wasn't continuously on the Enterprise after Kirk left.
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Old September 22 2012, 04:06 PM   #32
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Ilia was last-minute, but that doesn't necessarily make her a replacement for someone else. After all, the Enterprise was rushed into service to intercept the "intruder." It wasn't supposed to be launched for days, even weeks, and that would've just been for a shakedown, not active service. So they didn't necessarily have the full crew complement already assigned and ready to go. They were scrambling to pull together enough personnel to let them launch in 12 hours. It's not unreasonable that some of the posts weren't filled until late in the game.
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Old September 23 2012, 03:12 AM   #33
Maurice
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
t_smitts wrote: View Post
The crew's surprised reaction to Ilia's arrival (especially Decker) makes far more sense if she was a last-minute replacement.
Except she'd already, presumably, been to Dr Chapel some time earlier - pre-flight medical assessments? - because Ilia "once mentioned" the significance of her Deltan headband.
Which doesn't jive with Decker's apparent surprise at her coming aboard.
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Old September 23 2012, 03:14 AM   #34
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Ilia was last-minute, but that doesn't necessarily make her a replacement for someone else. After all, the Enterprise was rushed into service to intercept the "intruder." It wasn't supposed to be launched for days, even weeks, and that would've just been for a shakedown, not active service. So they didn't necessarily have the full crew complement already assigned and ready to go. They were scrambling to pull together enough personnel to let them launch in 12 hours. It's not unreasonable that some of the posts weren't filled until late in the game.
Agreed. And as Decker- who handpicked most of the crew himself- didn't seem to know that Ilia would be serving aboard Enterprise, it's possible that Kirk selected her name from a list of available navigators before he left Starfleet Headquarters, knowing that someone would need to fill the position. Come to think of it, it's not entirely clear who Decker's first-officer would have been had he remained in command of the Enterprise. Sulu would seem to be the most obvious choice, but it's possible that he had someone else in mind altogether.

Sonak was wearing commander's rank stripes on his uniform, but based on his dialogue with Kirk, it seemed as though he had only recently been posted to the Enterprise- and given that Decker intended for him to complete his mission briefing before even boarding the ship, it's not clear how well they knew each other or if they had even spoken face-to-face.

It's not clear who the female officer was supposed to be. Various novels suggest that she was Admiral Lori Ciana, a former love interest of Kirk's who had been involved in his initial promotion to admiral and acceptance of a position at Starfleet. A photograph of the transporter accident (minus the effects) was included in a 1980 calendar, and clearly depicts a woman not wearing an admiral's uniform.
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Old September 23 2012, 03:17 AM   #35
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Maurice wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
t_smitts wrote: View Post
The crew's surprised reaction to Ilia's arrival (especially Decker) makes far more sense if she was a last-minute replacement.
Except she'd already, presumably, been to Dr Chapel some time earlier - pre-flight medical assessments? - because Ilia "once mentioned" the significance of her Deltan headband.
Which doesn't jive with Decker's apparent surprise at her coming aboard.
Agreed. As I said in my previous post, I get the impression that Kirk may have chosen her name from a list of available navigators before leaving Earth, as he didn't have much time before the Enterprise was to depart.
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Old September 23 2012, 11:39 PM   #36
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
I found this which goes through some of the differences between the BBFC (Uk) and MPAA (U) rating bodies.

http://www.sbbfc.co.uk/mpaacomparison
Thanks for posting that; I'll have to read through it when I have some time.
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Old September 24 2012, 02:48 AM   #37
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Admiral_Sisko wrote: View Post
A photograph of the transporter accident (minus the effects) was included in a 1980 calendar, and clearly depicts a woman not wearing an admiral's uniform.
And Roddenberry's novelization covers that by specifically stating that Vice Admiral Ciana took a vacant berth as a regular crewmember to get aboard.

But Roddenberry was also writing the novelization long after the transporter accident scene had been filmed. The script itself certainly never specified that the woman was connected to Kirk, although the character was essentially another holdover from "Phase II", in which she was called Alexandra Keys.
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Old September 25 2012, 04:01 AM   #38
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

I don't recall this Alexandra Keys in any of the Phase II material I've seen. Where was she supposed to be?
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Old September 25 2012, 02:15 PM   #39
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Maurice wrote: View Post
I don't recall this Alexandra Keys in any of the Phase II material I've seen. Where was she supposed to be?
In the opening Kirk scene of "In Thy Image", he is swimming naked with a woman he has been in a relationship with.
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Old September 25 2012, 02:32 PM   #40
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Maurice wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
t_smitts wrote: View Post
The crew's surprised reaction to Ilia's arrival (especially Decker) makes far more sense if she was a last-minute replacement.
Except she'd already, presumably, been to Dr Chapel some time earlier - pre-flight medical assessments? - because Ilia "once mentioned" the significance of her Deltan headband.
Which doesn't jive with Decker's apparent surprise at her coming aboard.
I am really enjoying this thread, but is it 'jive' or gibe?
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Old September 25 2012, 02:34 PM   #41
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
I don't recall this Alexandra Keys in any of the Phase II material I've seen. Where was she supposed to be?
In the opening Kirk scene of "In Thy Image", he is swimming naked with a woman he has been in a relationship with.
I remember reading that scene and wondering how they could have portrayed that on-screen. So many interesting details in that novel a lot of them would have really made TMP a more interesting look at GR's 23rd Century
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Old September 25 2012, 06:31 PM   #42
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
The main reason I think it was missed in the film is because in the Star Trek universe, ultimately the transporter is safe when operating as intended. McCoy's concerns about having his molecules scrambled are treated as an eccentricity, and the fact that TMP treats them that way is really my exhibit A that the film missed the connection between the transporter and V'Ger.
Which is an interesting point in and of itself about TMP, actually. Here you have an absolutely horrific, gruesome accident involving two people being killed by the transporter. And then, just a couple scenes later, we're back to making jokes about cranky old McCoy and his attitude toward the transporter. Seems like an inappropriate time to be laughing about his attitude, and certainly his fears would seem more justified at that point.
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Old September 25 2012, 06:41 PM   #43
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

^They're very efficient at working through the stages of grief in the future. Kirk can be mourning the death of the redshirt whose father sponsored him in the Academy in one scene, and then by the end of the episode be laughing and joking with Spock and McCoy. They can't muck about with extended grieving periods, they've got places to go!
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Old September 25 2012, 07:13 PM   #44
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

CoveTom wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
The main reason I think it was missed in the film is because in the Star Trek universe, ultimately the transporter is safe when operating as intended. McCoy's concerns about having his molecules scrambled are treated as an eccentricity, and the fact that TMP treats them that way is really my exhibit A that the film missed the connection between the transporter and V'Ger.
Which is an interesting point in and of itself about TMP, actually. Here you have an absolutely horrific, gruesome accident involving two people being killed by the transporter. And then, just a couple scenes later, we're back to making jokes about cranky old McCoy and his attitude toward the transporter. Seems like an inappropriate time to be laughing about his attitude, and certainly his fears would seem more justified at that point.

Agreed. What weird writing.
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Old September 25 2012, 09:00 PM   #45
Admiral_Sisko
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Re: How did TMP get a G rating?

Christopher wrote: View Post
^They're very efficient at working through the stages of grief in the future. Kirk can be mourning the death of the redshirt whose father sponsored him in the Academy in one scene, and then by the end of the episode be laughing and joking with Spock and McCoy. They can't muck about with extended grieving periods, they've got places to go!
I'd argue that they're in a perpetual state of denial, as no one seems to take the time to grieve. Kirk was momentarily stunned by the transporter accident, but otherwise seemed unaffected by the death of a science officer whom he recommended serve aboard the Enterprise.

By the end of The Motion Picture, everyone seems content to move forward with their lives, as the only mention of Decker or Ilia occurs when Kirk orders they be listed as "missing in action." No one seems surprised or saddened when Decker doesn't appear on the bridge with the rest of the away team, although Kirk does appear to pause as though reflecting on their loss. It may be that they were watching events unfold on the main viewer, but everyone seems to gloss over Decker's disappearance, despite his having been their captain only a few days earlier.
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