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Old September 22 2012, 01:35 AM   #406
CorporalCaptain
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Here's what the wiki has to say on the subject [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman]:

Because Siegel and Shuster were both Jewish, some religious commentators and pop-culture scholars such as Rabbi Simcha Weinstein and British novelist Howard Jacobson suggest that Superman's creation was partly influenced by Moses,[48][49] and other Jewish elements. More recently, this interpretation has been endorsed by biographer Larry Tye.[50] For example, Superman's Kryptonian name, "Kal-El", resembles the Hebrew words קל-אל, which can be taken to mean "voice of God".[51] The suffix "el", meaning "(of) God," is also found in the name of angels (e.g. Gabriel, Ariel), who are flying humanoid agents of good with superhuman powers. Tye suggests that this "Voice of God" is an allusion to Moses' role as a prophet.[50] Moreover, Kal-El's parents send him away in a vessel, delivering him to new adoptive parents in an alien culture in order to save him from impending doom, just as Moses' parents do.[50] "The narratives of Krypton's birth and death borrowed the language of Genesis."[50]

On the other hand, Superman has been seen by others as being an analogy for Jesus, being a savior of humanity.[41][49][50][52][53] Furthermore, the surname Kent, in early 20th century real life, was a common Americanization of "Cohen," and Clark Kent's wimpy, bumbling persona strongly resembled the classic Yiddish schlemiel.
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Old September 22 2012, 01:49 AM   #407
Nerys Myk
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Admiral M wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Besides, I wouldn't call Phelp's ability to lap a pool a few seconds faster than the average man "super powered" in this context.
You severely understate his abilities. Could an average man swim 400 meters, using 4 different techniques almost flawlessly and then finish in under 2 minutes? If you know of anyone who can, then they should immediately drop everything and compete in swim medley competitions.

I'm just screwing with you all about the Phelps thing. Although, I did consider the possibility that people might be chasing him for a potential Aquaman film, to capitalise on his success.

One thing I still stand by is that more often than not, a superhero movie has featured either a mediocre actor or a mediocre performance by an otherwise good actor in the lead role. Nerys gave the list of outstanding performances, so here's the list of mediocre performances:

Michael Jai White - Spawn
Ryan Reynolds - Green Lantern
Nicholas Cage - Ghost Rider
George Clooney - Batman (although I regard Clooney as a pretty decent actor, and despite the fact he was assigned to the good list - in this movie, he was awful)
Chris O'Donnell - Robin
Alicia Silverstone - Batgirl
Josh Brolin - Jonah Hex
Shaquille O'Neil - Steel
Ben Affleck - Daredevil
Jennifer Garner - Elektra
Chris Evans - The Human Torch
Ioan Gruffudd - Mr Fantastic
Jessica Alba - The Invisible Woman
Ray Stevenson - The Punisher

Of course, this is all subject to my opinion, although popular opinion of numerous critics and reviewers alike, agrees with me.

If a JL movie is made, you can guarantee that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and The Flash, will be the leading characters of the movie, despite it being an ensemble feature.
All you've done is list actors who were in bad films, not mediocre actors. Most of them are better than mediocre actors, some are pretty damn good.


Of course some characters will be leads and others secondary. Even in the recent Avengers film Black Widow, Hawkeye and even Hulk took a backseat to Cap, Iron Man and Thor.
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Old September 22 2012, 01:51 AM   #408
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Here's what the wiki has to say on the subject [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman]:

Because Siegel and Shuster were both Jewish, some religious commentators and pop-culture scholars such as Rabbi Simcha Weinstein and British novelist Howard Jacobson suggest that Superman's creation was partly influenced by Moses,[48][49] and other Jewish elements. More recently, this interpretation has been endorsed by biographer Larry Tye.[50] For example, Superman's Kryptonian name, "Kal-El", resembles the Hebrew words קל-אל, which can be taken to mean "voice of God".[51] The suffix "el", meaning "(of) God," is also found in the name of angels (e.g. Gabriel, Ariel), who are flying humanoid agents of good with superhuman powers. Tye suggests that this "Voice of God" is an allusion to Moses' role as a prophet.[50] Moreover, Kal-El's parents send him away in a vessel, delivering him to new adoptive parents in an alien culture in order to save him from impending doom, just as Moses' parents do.[50] "The narratives of Krypton's birth and death borrowed the language of Genesis."[50]

On the other hand, Superman has been seen by others as being an analogy for Jesus, being a savior of humanity.[41][49][50][52][53] Furthermore, the surname Kent, in early 20th century real life, was a common Americanization of "Cohen," and Clark Kent's wimpy, bumbling persona strongly resembled the classic Yiddish schlemiel.
Never heard of the Kent/Cohen connection before. Interesting.
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Old September 22 2012, 01:59 AM   #409
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I really, really doubt that S&S consciously said to each other "Let's create a religious allegory fraught with Jewish symbolism while we write this story about a guy in tights and a cape who beats up slum lords and tosses cars around." I think they were just trying to create an adventure story, drawing on pulp heroes like Doc Savage, comics like Flash Gordon, movie stars (Shuster they named Clark Kent after actors Clark Gable and Kent Taylor), and mythic strongmen like Hercules and Samson, and addressing the rampant crime and corruption of their day. Any influences from things like the Moses story were probably unconscious, just part of the conceptual background they were raised with. Literary critics often try way too hard to read secret meanings and messages into creative works so that they'll have something to talk about.
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Old September 22 2012, 02:05 AM   #410
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I find the parallel between Moses, putting the baby in a basket and sending him downriver to escape death, fascinating. That does seem like more than a coincidence to me. Granted, it could be unconscious.
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Old September 22 2012, 02:49 AM   #411
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I find the parallel between Moses, putting the baby in a basket and sending him downriver to escape death, fascinating. That does seem like more than a coincidence to me. Granted, it could be unconscious.
It's not. Being Jews it's been stated in a documentary that they crafted Superman off of what they knew best. As many artists usually do they speak with their background.
I want to say it's mentioned in the documentary Look, Up in the Sky.
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Old September 22 2012, 03:01 AM   #412
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I have absolutely no idea what issue it was, but there was an old Superman comic that got into the history of Krypton. It reminded me of the Old Testament.
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Old September 22 2012, 03:36 AM   #413
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Set Harth wrote: View Post
I have absolutely no idea what issue it was, but there was an old Superman comic that got into the history of Krypton. It reminded me of the Old Testament.
I recall a comic where the past of Krypton was just like Earth. Their "20th Century" looked a lot like the 1950's on Earth complete with a Daily Planet that included doppelgangers of Perry, Jimmy and Lois.
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Old September 22 2012, 04:52 AM   #414
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I've read Silver Age stories about Krypton, and it owed far more to Flash Gordon than the Old Testament. Honestly, folks, historically most comic-book writers -- aside from Al Hartley -- have not been writing thinly veiled religious allegories. They've just been writing adventure stories that they thought would be entertaining.
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Old September 22 2012, 02:40 PM   #415
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

The topic was not Krypton specifically it was just the origins of Superman.
Krypton, no doubt shares imagery with Flash Gordon but all that was explored later.

Superman's origin is indeed based of off Moses from the OT. Nothing wrong with that.
Krypton is another matter you've just interjected.
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Old September 22 2012, 02:51 PM   #416
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

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Superman's origin is indeed based of off Moses from the OT. Nothing wrong with that.
Except Siegel and Shuster themselves both denied that. God forbid a story about an orphan just be about an orphan. A concept which, in case it's not abundantly clear, existed well before Moses ever did.

And considering the only similarity between Superman and Moses is that they're both orphans, I don't know how people even come to that conclusion to begin with. Other than the fact that Siegel and Shuster happened to be Jewish. Which, I guess in painful racist minds, means everything they think and do must revolve around their religion.

Or did I miss the part where an evil alien king ordered all Kryptonian children to be drowned, which is why Jor-El sent Kal-El into space? And when during his origin story did Kal-El ever return to Krypton in order to free his fellow Kryptonians (the chosen of Rao, which I also have no recollection of them ever being referred to as) from slavery? Because I definitely missed that chapter, too.
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Old September 22 2012, 03:30 PM   #417
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

^^^
It wasn't my documentary, chill dude.
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Old September 22 2012, 04:18 PM   #418
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Except Siegel and Shuster themselves both denied that. God forbid a story about an orphan just be about an orphan. A concept which, in case it's not abundantly clear, existed well before Moses ever did.

And considering the only similarity between Superman and Moses is that they're both orphans, I don't know how people even come to that conclusion to begin with.
Well, there's a bit more to it than that. Moses wasn't just an orphan, but an orphan who was placed in a small craft and sent away by his parents to protect him from death. So there is a real parallel there, one that I for one recognized long before I realized Superman's creators were Jewish.

But as you say, the trope of infants being sent away by their parents to save their lives is a recurring mythological archetype, found with figures like Oedipus, Romulus & Remus, Kama, etc. (and more recently Luke and Leia, Quinn Mallory of Sliders, Leela of Futurama, Po of Kung Fu Panda, and the lead character of the current Once Upon a Time). The Biblical account of Moses's infancy is one of the oldest recorded iterations of that archetype, but it's probably not the first.
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Old September 23 2012, 03:53 AM   #419
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

So, was Superman's bris performed on Krypton or did the Kents have to perform one, somehow, once baby Kal-El got to Earth? And did they raise Clark knowing he's from an alien race of advanced Jews or did they raise him in their more Protestant ways?
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Old September 23 2012, 05:37 AM   #420
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
or did the Kents have to perform one, somehow, once baby Kal-El got to Earth?
Yeah, that'll work.
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