Did Insurrection kill the TNG franchise? - Page 2

NrobbieC · September 21 2012, 12:08 PM

teacake wrote:

NrobbieC wrote:

Or the fans for not going to see them. I mean, people went to see TUC and that followed TFF!

Those were much better movies.

TFF is better than something? Dude, it's hard to find something worse.

horatio83 · September 21 2012, 12:59 PM

While I am one of the few guys who doesn't perceive the TNG flicks as being worse than the TOS flicks it is undeniable that they didn't achieve a total change like the TOS movies have (probably for the simply reason that they lacked a ten year hiatus which helped tremendously in giving the TOS characters a sense of being living classics). They rather oscillated between feeling visually (GEN) or thematically (INS) similar to the show and being big screen blockbusters (FC, NEM).

LOKAI of CHERON · September 21 2012, 02:39 PM

horatio83 wrote:

They rather oscillated between feeling visually (GEN) or thematically (INS) similar to the show and being big screen blockbusters (FC, NEM).

I can't agree with your assessment reference GEN's visual similarity to the televised version. For me, GEN brought by far the most cinematic visual presentation of TNG to the silver screen. The lighting and cinematography were outstanding IMHO.

horatio83 · September 21 2012, 02:55 PM

I think it is a matter of inside and outside.
I had a problem with the extreme lighting as it seemed like a cheap attempt to give the TV sets cinematic flair. Yet the exterior shots of the D were undeniably well done. It was probably even unnecessary to crush her and create a new ship.

Irishman · September 21 2012, 04:12 PM

Dream wrote:

The first two seasons of Enteprise being so bad is what killed the Star Trek franchise.

Insurrection made less money than FC, but it was still decent amount.

Years of bad ENT did more damage than any of TNG movies.

Bulldust! The topic is whether or not Insurrection or Nemesis killed the TNG movie franchise.

sonak · September 21 2012, 04:15 PM

yes. It came right after the big success that was FC, and did more than $20 million less in box office. After doing an ambitious, fun action blockbuster in FC, for some reason they did a 180 and decided to do a lame, boring movie about an unsympathetic group of people that no one cared about.

I get that they didn't want to try to "top" FC, but you don't radically depart from the very things that made your extremely successful movie a success in the first place. "well, first contact did great, so let's make a movie that's like it's opposite. Unambitious, uninteresting, lame humor, a lame dilemma, and lame villains."

Nemesis wasn't so great, but it was better than INS. At least it had ambition.

22 Stars · September 21 2012, 04:39 PM

INS was 'supposed' to be the ST IV of TNG movies. The more sunny, fun, relaxed romp after the dark previous film. The only problem was that failed to deliver either laughs, or action. And just wound up being lame and very vanilla.

Galileo7 · September 21 2012, 04:52 PM

BillJ wrote:

Without a doubt.

Gave us a group of people no one cared about and a dumb moral dilemma.

"Pretty white people fight eminent domain!"

Agree.

JarodRussell · September 21 2012, 05:02 PM

Did Insurrection kill the TNG franchise?

No. Not doing a 5th TNG movie killed the TNG franchise.

LOKAI of CHERON · September 21 2012, 05:18 PM

horatio83 wrote:

I think it is a matter of inside and outside.
I had a problem with the extreme lighting as it seemed like a cheap attempt to give the TV sets cinematic flair. Yet the exterior shots of the D were undeniably well done. It was probably even unnecessary to crush her and create a new ship.

Really? I thought the lighting employed on the Enterprise was absolutely beautiful.

JarodRussell · September 21 2012, 05:24 PM

Cinematography in Generations is definitely the best of the films. I love how finally, light came from space through the windows, and even the viewscreen.

People often say they tried to hide flaws of the sets in shadows for the big screen. But that's bull. First, just look at TNG-R, there is nothing to hide, because the sets are good. Second, they revamped the sets for the film anyhow.

BillJ · September 21 2012, 05:42 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

Did Insurrection kill the TNG franchise?

No. Not doing a 5th TNG movie killed the TNG franchise.

Paramount found something to do with the cash that was far more profitable than a fifth TNG film would have been: flushing it down a toilet.

Galileo7 · September 21 2012, 05:45 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

Cinematography in Generations is definitely the best of the films. I love how finally, light came from space through the windows, and even the viewscreen.

People often say they tried to hide flaws of the sets in shadows for the big screen. But that's bull. First, just look at TNG-R, there is nothing to hide, because the sets are good. Second, they revamped the sets for the film anyhow.

Agree, the 1701-D sets in Generations looked great.

Delsaber · September 21 2012, 07:44 PM

Those scenes from Generations in Ten Forward and the ready room while the Enterprise was near the star, with the warm yellow light washing over everything... beautiful, and also very unique. I can't think of any other instance in Trek where the lighting was that effective.

Stuff like that is one more reason, albeit a minor one, for Trek's decline in the late 90s and early 00s. It began to look, sound, and feel stagnant. By the time Enterprise began to experiment a little with its cinematography and scoring it was way too late.

Dream · September 21 2012, 10:12 PM

Irishman wrote:

Dream wrote:

The first two seasons of Enteprise being so bad is what killed the Star Trek franchise.

Insurrection made less money than FC, but it was still decent amount.

Years of bad ENT did more damage than any of TNG movies.

Bulldust! The topic is whether or not Insurrection or Nemesis killed the TNG movie franchise.

Answer. It didn't.

If people are going to blame something it should be Enterprise.

September 21 2012, 12:59 PM	#17
horatio83 Commodore	Re: Did Insurrection kill the TNG franchise? While I am one of the few guys who doesn't perceive the TNG flicks as being worse than the TOS flicks it is undeniable that they didn't achieve a total change like the TOS movies have (probably for the simply reason that they lacked a ten year hiatus which helped tremendously in giving the TOS characters a sense of being living classics). They rather oscillated between feeling visually (GEN) or thematically (INS) similar to the show and being big screen blockbusters (FC, NEM). __________________ The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer. - former US Secretary of State and unconvicted war criminal Henry Kissinger

September 21 2012, 02:55 PM	#19
horatio83 Commodore	Re: Did Insurrection kill the TNG franchise? I think it is a matter of inside and outside. I had a problem with the extreme lighting as it seemed like a cheap attempt to give the TV sets cinematic flair. Yet the exterior shots of the D were undeniably well done. It was probably even unnecessary to crush her and create a new ship. __________________ The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer. - former US Secretary of State and unconvicted war criminal Henry Kissinger

September 21 2012, 04:15 PM	#21
sonak Rear Admiral Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination	Re: Did Insurrection kill the TNG franchise? yes. It came right after the big success that was FC, and did more than $20 million less in box office. After doing an ambitious, fun action blockbuster in FC, for some reason they did a 180 and decided to do a lame, boring movie about an unsympathetic group of people that no one cared about. I get that they didn't want to try to "top" FC, but you don't radically depart from the very things that made your extremely successful movie a success in the first place. "well, first contact did great, so let's make a movie that's like it's opposite. Unambitious, uninteresting, lame humor, a lame dilemma, and lame villains." Nemesis wasn't so great, but it was better than INS. At least it had ambition.

September 21 2012, 04:39 PM	#22
22 Stars Commodore	Re: Did Insurrection kill the TNG franchise? INS was 'supposed' to be the ST IV of TNG movies. The more sunny, fun, relaxed romp after the dark previous film. The only problem was that failed to deliver either laughs, or action. And just wound up being lame and very vanilla.

September 21 2012, 05:24 PM	#26
JarodRussell Vice Admiral	Re: Did Insurrection kill the TNG franchise? Cinematography in Generations is definitely the best of the films. I love how finally, light came from space through the windows, and even the viewscreen. People often say they tried to hide flaws of the sets in shadows for the big screen. But that's bull. First, just look at TNG-R, there is nothing to hide, because the sets are good. Second, they revamped the sets for the film anyhow.

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September 21 2012, 07:44 PM	#29
Delsaber Commodore Location: Parts Unknown	Re: Did Insurrection kill the TNG franchise? Those scenes from Generations in Ten Forward and the ready room while the Enterprise was near the star, with the warm yellow light washing over everything... beautiful, and also very unique. I can't think of any other instance in Trek where the lighting was that effective. Stuff like that is one more reason, albeit a minor one, for Trek's decline in the late 90s and early 00s. It began to look, sound, and feel stagnant. By the time Enterprise began to experiment a little with its cinematography and scoring it was way too late. __________________ • Delsaber, The Punk Rock P'takh, from Parts Unknown... • Caffeine-Fueled: jittery, occasionally-maintained geek culture blogging.