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Old September 21 2012, 06:04 PM   #391
Captaindemotion
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Admiral M wrote: View Post
Takeru wrote: View Post
Why? Glenn Close would make a better Aquaman than Phelps, what makes you think he would be a good choice?
Because he could do all his own stunts, and he really is a superhuman swimmer.
But he's not an actor. And even though he may be able to do all his own stunts, they wouldn't let him; if the main actor gets injured doing a stunt, the movie is held up for months while he recovers.
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Old September 21 2012, 06:28 PM   #392
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
But he's not an actor.
Aw, they can just get him a dialogue coach for the "talk to fish" scenes.
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Old September 21 2012, 06:37 PM   #393
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
And even though he may be able to do all his own stunts, they wouldn't let him; if the main actor gets injured doing a stunt, the movie is held up for months while he recovers.
There are a number of movies where the lead actors do, in fact, do most of their own stunt work. For instance, Tom Cruise genuinely was climbing on the outside of the tallest building in the world in Mission: Impossible: Ghost Protocol (though he was on wires that were digitally erased in the film). Most of the actors in the Matrix films did the majority of their own stunts, as did the cast of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, as well as Jennifer Garner and Will Yun Lee in Elektra. Chris Evans did a great deal of his own stunt work in Captain America, and indeed it's mentioned in the DVD commentary that he had to do all his own running because he has a very distinctive run that nobody else could mimic.

Of course, in most of these cases we're talking about people who were actors first and then trained to do the necessary stunts. Not a lot of people start out as stunt performers and then become actors, though it's been known to happen (e.g. Jock Mahoney, Doug McClure, Ann Robinson, Zoe Bell, and of course the ultimate stuntman, Jackie Chan).
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Old September 21 2012, 08:46 PM   #394
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
But he's not an actor. And even though he may be able to do all his own stunts, they wouldn't let him; if the main actor gets injured doing a stunt, the movie is held up for months while he recovers.
How about all those musicians who receive roles in movies, despite no prior experience? A person doesn't have to be an actor to pull off a critically acclaimed performance.

Many roles are assigned based on a performers experience or occupation. Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Steven Seagal and Jean Claude Van Damme, were all competitive martial artists who have all been cast in movies as martial artists. Aquaman swims at standards which far exceed any normal person - Michael Phelps swims at standards which far exceed any normal person.

The fighting and dangerous underwater work could be done by pro-stuntmen, the special FX will be done with CGI, and Phelps could easily do the rest, should he show an aptitude for acting.

Maybe I'm just looking for realism in a very fictional role.
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Old September 21 2012, 08:55 PM   #395
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

It doesn't make any sense. If you only need him for swimming scenes, then hire him as a swimming double. The first priority in casting the main actor for the role will presumably be his acting ability, or at least his onscreen charisma and suitability for the character as written, not to mention his chemistry with the other actors. There are too many considerations involved to base the casting decision on something as peripheral as a physical talent that you could just hire a double to do anyway.
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Old September 21 2012, 09:02 PM   #396
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

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The first priority in casting the main actor for the role will presumably be his acting ability


That's the optimists view. In reality, superhero movies often feature mediocre actors in the lead roles.
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Old September 21 2012, 09:11 PM   #397
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Thank you, Governor Romney, for quoting me out of context to twist my words. You left out "or at least his onscreen charisma and suitability for the character as written, not to mention his chemistry with the other actors."
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Old September 21 2012, 11:06 PM   #398
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Besides, I wouldn't call Phelp's ability to lap a pool a few seconds faster than the average man "super powered" in this context. It's hardly note worthy for casting the role.
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Old September 21 2012, 11:12 PM   #399
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Admiral M wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
The first priority in casting the main actor for the role will presumably be his acting ability


That's the optimists view. In reality, superhero movies often feature mediocre actors in the lead roles.
Christian Bale, George Clooney, Michael Keaton, Chris Reeve, Robert Downey Jr, Eric Bana, Ed Norton,Tobey Maguire ....the mediocrity just goes on and on.
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Old September 22 2012, 12:14 AM   #400
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

sojourner wrote: View Post
Besides, I wouldn't call Phelp's ability to lap a pool a few seconds faster than the average man "super powered" in this context.
You severely understate his abilities. Could an average man swim 400 meters, using 4 different techniques almost flawlessly and then finish in under 2 minutes? If you know of anyone who can, then they should immediately drop everything and compete in swim medley competitions.

I'm just screwing with you all about the Phelps thing. Although, I did consider the possibility that people might be chasing him for a potential Aquaman film, to capitalise on his success.

One thing I still stand by is that more often than not, a superhero movie has featured either a mediocre actor or a mediocre performance by an otherwise good actor in the lead role. Nerys gave the list of outstanding performances, so here's the list of mediocre performances:

Michael Jai White - Spawn
Ryan Reynolds - Green Lantern
Nicholas Cage - Ghost Rider
George Clooney - Batman (although I regard Clooney as a pretty decent actor, and despite the fact he was assigned to the good list - in this movie, he was awful)
Chris O'Donnell - Robin
Alicia Silverstone - Batgirl
Josh Brolin - Jonah Hex
Shaquille O'Neil - Steel
Ben Affleck - Daredevil
Jennifer Garner - Elektra
Chris Evans - The Human Torch
Ioan Gruffudd - Mr Fantastic
Jessica Alba - The Invisible Woman
Ray Stevenson - The Punisher

Of course, this is all subject to my opinion, although popular opinion of numerous critics and reviewers alike, agrees with me.

If a JL movie is made, you can guarantee that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and The Flash, will be the leading characters of the movie, despite it being an ensemble feature.
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Old September 22 2012, 12:24 AM   #401
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Admiral M wrote: View Post
Chris Evans - The Human Torch
Actually many people thought Chris Evans as Human Torch and Michael Chiklis as the Thing were the only good things about The Fantastic Four movies. Evans did a good job, even though I think he did much better as Captain America. I think playing a convincing straight man like Cap is much more difficult to do than playing a goofball like Human Torch.

If a JL movie is made, you can guarantee that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and The Flash, will be the leading characters of the movie, despite it being an ensemble feature.
I can understand the big three being the leads, but why Flash? I never considered Flash to be that popular.
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Old September 22 2012, 12:52 AM   #402
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

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I can understand the big three being the leads, but why Flash? I never considered Flash to be that popular.
Well, I put it down to those four being the most relatable characters in the JL. You have:

Superman, who represents masculinity, hope and the light. He is the ultimate example of compassion, just as anyone who wields great power is (be it physical, political, economical or otherwise), yet he doesn't abuse it, and still makes time for even the weakest of people. He also represents the "Jesus figure", in that he landed on Earth as a child (descended from the heavens), and is the son of a brilliant scientist (science which would be indistinguishable from magic to us) and a member of a highly advanced race (Gods).

Wonder Woman represents femininity, equality and nature. Her character also displays the more artistic side of humanity, the concept of expression and how something beautiful, can also be extremely powerful.

Batman could be seen as the dark side of humanity, yet carries a great amount of hope along with that dark side. He does whatever he must to bring people to justice - alive. By not killing, he doesn't fully descend into the darkness and this also conveys will and retention of self, despite the often horrific criminals that he deals with . Batman is both a symbol of fear and a symbol of security. He represents a balance, a personfication of yin and yang perhaps?

The Flash represents achievement and victory, something in which we see a great deal of in sport. Flash is the ultimate racer, he sprints ahead to his goal in record timing, leaving everybody else in his wake. He's a scientist, and thus personifies human progression in the field of science, technology and academics. He could also be seen to represent the need for people to take it easy, and not always rush ahead.


Take from this what you will, it's the best shot I can give at explaining why I perceive them as being more relatable than the other characters.
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Old September 22 2012, 01:14 AM   #403
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Icemizer wrote: View Post
^I agree. Now where should they be based? Hall of Justice, Satellite, or Moon Base. I favor the satellite as it gives the impression that they are watching over the whole Earth. The Hall would be there but is basically a tourist attraction as in Young Justice.
I'm more of a fan of the Moon base Watchtower.

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If they use Aquaman, they should go with the Batman: The Brave and the Bold version. "Outrageous!"
Can he still stab Darkseid in the eyes with a trident, because that was kind of badass, especially since Aquaman survived doing it.
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Old September 22 2012, 01:28 AM   #404
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Admiral M wrote: View Post
One thing I still stand by is that more often than not, a superhero movie has featured either a mediocre actor or a mediocre performance by an otherwise good actor in the lead role. Nerys gave the list of outstanding performances, so here's the list of mediocre performances:

Michael Jai White - Spawn
Ryan Reynolds - Green Lantern
Nicholas Cage - Ghost Rider
George Clooney - Batman (although I regard Clooney as a pretty decent actor, and despite the fact he was assigned to the good list - in this movie, he was awful)
Chris O'Donnell - Robin
Alicia Silverstone - Batgirl
Josh Brolin - Jonah Hex
Shaquille O'Neil - Steel
Ben Affleck - Daredevil
Jennifer Garner - Elektra
Chris Evans - The Human Torch
Ioan Gruffudd - Mr Fantastic
Jessica Alba - The Invisible Woman
Ray Stevenson - The Punisher

Of course, this is all subject to my opinion, although popular opinion of numerous critics and reviewers alike, agrees with me.
But a lot of those weren't mediocre actors, but excellent actors stuck with mediocre scripts, characters, or directors. It doesn't work to lump skilled actors like Clooney or Gruffudd with someone like Shaq or Jessica Alba. And of course Evans was great as Cap, so he's hardly to blame for any shortfalls in the portrayal of the Torch. As for Brolin, I'm not sure how he is as an actor, but from what I've heard about the Jonah Hex movie, no actor could've salvaged that role.

In any case, the point is that not one of those actors was cast solely or primarily for their ability to perform a physical skill -- unless you count Alba, who seemed to be cast mainly for her ability to look good in her underwear. Less-than-gifted actors may be chosen for their looks, their personal charisma, or yes, their fame, but there are always going to be multiple factors in play including how they interact with, or look alongside, the rest of the cast. Even Shaq had two movies' worth of acting experience and a limited performing career in rap prior to Steel.



Admiral M wrote: View Post
Superman... also represents the "Jesus figure", in that he landed on Earth as a child (descended from the heavens), and is the son of a brilliant scientist (science which would be indistinguishable from magic to us) and a member of a highly advanced race (Gods).
Well, the problem with the idea of Superman as a Christ figure is that he was created by two Jewish guys. Also ComicsAlliance's Chris Sims deconstructs it rather well here:
As I understand it, the entire deal with Jesus in a nutshell is that he was the Son of God, divinity made flesh who was sent to Earth in order to instruct us as a teacher and then sacrifice His life, redeeming the whole of humanity for its sins through His suffering on both a literal and metaphorical level....

Superman's story, on the other hand, has nothing to do with any of that. The core of his character isn't about sacrifice or redemption at all, it's about having power and choosing to use it for the benefit of everyone rather than just using it for yourself. The comparison seems to be entirely based on the idea that Superman's a really nice guy who came from somewhere up in the sky. That's about where the similarities end.

Jor-El is not Space God. He doesn't send Superman to Earth for our benefit, he sends Superman to Earth because it's the one place in the universe where his son can survive and thrive. He's protecting him, not sacrificing him, and humanity's need for someone to fight robots and Brainiacs doesn't even cross his mind. And, to paraphrase Grant Morrison, I'm pretty sure Heaven didn't explode shortly after Jesus was launched down to Bethlehem.

Superman's morality isn't divine or innate, either. It's not something that he was born with, and it's not something that sets him apart from humanity. Morally speaking, anyone can be as Good as Superman; the only advantage he has is that he was brought up by a couple of really nice farmers. He's an aspirational figure rather than a redemptive one, who shows us that we all have the ability to use our talents for good, we just have to choose to do so.
I think the Superman-as-Christ idea is largely a creation of the 1978 movie. Unfortunately a lot more people watch movies than read comics, so that variant interpretation has come to be seen as the standard.
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Old September 22 2012, 01:32 AM   #405
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

If you're going to cast Michael Phelps as Aquaman simply on the basis that he's the best swimmer in the world, why not just go the whole hog and cast Usain Bolt as the Flash? After all, he's the fastest man alive? And why not find the soldier in the US Military with the most bravery awards and citations and cast him as Captain America? Or get one of those fellas who climb skyscrapers and cast him as Spider-man?
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