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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old September 20 2012, 02:11 AM   #61
Vanyel
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Re: Prime Directive problem with "Homeward"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post

So a preindustrial society can have comets and asteroids moved out of their path, but a society like ours gets hit just because we understand the threat? How is that fair?
One has a choice on whether it puts its collective resources towards preventing its own extinction while the other does not. You're far more likely to want to save a toddler, who is in the wrong place at the wrong time, from getting hit by a bus which is a threat it doesn't understand than trying to save someone who darts across a busy intersection everyday to save a minute or two.

One understands the ramifications of reckless actions while the other doesn't know the potential threat exists.

You'll never be able to save every species and no one here has said that you should even try, but you do have a responsibility to those you're exploiting for personal gain. Or else the Federation is really no different than the Klingons or other races that exploit less advanced cultures.
I don't think that's a good analogy. Our planet is on set course orbiting its sun. We know that sooner or later we'll get hit by something big. We have no control over that. The idiot who tries to dart across a busy street and gets hit did have a choice. We don't. We have ideas on what MIGHT work. But no idea has been tested. And it really wouldn't matter if we don't spot the object in time. And if it's a cluster of smaller objects whose total mass is enough to cause an extinction level event, we have no defense.

And how are these societies being exploited? They are being watched, no interference was done except in the case of the Boral and the Ba'ku.
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Old September 20 2012, 02:23 AM   #62
BillJ
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Re: Prime Directive problem with "Homeward"

Vanyel wrote: View Post

And how are these societies being exploited? They are being watched, no interference was done except in the case of the Boral and the Ba'ku.
And the Mintakans. And the Malcorians. And I'm sure there are some I'm forgetting.

Did the Federation ask anyone for permission to invade these people's space and infiltrate their societies? The Federation is making a unilateral decision that their search for knowledge trumps these species rights to common courtesy. The Federation is making a unilateral decision on what's the right course for these people without simply asking them. Not to mention that no operation is ever one-hundred percent "clean". Who knows what impact them simply setting foot on a pre-warp world can have in the long run.

It's neat that the Prime Directive prevents you from contacting these species and also prevents you from helping them. It allows the Federation to engage in spying on these worlds while acting like they have a moral high ground.
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Old September 20 2012, 03:02 AM   #63
Vanyel
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Re: Prime Directive problem with "Homeward"

BillJ wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post

And how are these societies being exploited? They are being watched, no interference was done except in the case of the Boral and the Ba'ku.
And the Mintakans. And the Malcorians. And I'm sure there are some I'm forgetting.
The Mintakans were unaware they were being observed until the duck blind had a systems failure. The Malcorians are a warp capable society. At the end of the episode they chose to be left alone and as far we can tell, since their head of state told the Federation to go away it did taking all its observers with it. What Picard told Durken was that the Federation prefers a controlled meeting over a chance meeting in space. Indeed, making first contact could protect the newly warp capable world from threats like the Cardsassians or other conquerors.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Did the Federation ask anyone for permission to invade these people's space and infiltrate their societies? The Federation is making a unilateral decision that their search for knowledge trumps these species rights to common courtesy. The Federation is making a unilateral decision on what's the right course for these people without simply asking them.
Common courtesy is upheld by first contact, letting the government know they are there, that the Federation is willing to help and to protect, or to leave and not come back until invited.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Not to mention that no operation is ever one-hundred percent "clean". Who knows what impact them simply setting foot on a pre-warp world can have in the long run.
Thank you for making my point for not moving the Boraal. Who knows what the impact will be to the new world they are put on will be.

BillJ wrote: View Post
It's neat that the Prime Directive prevents you from contacting these species and also prevents you from helping them. It allows the Federation to engage in spying on these worlds while acting like they have a moral high ground.
Spying or learning? Spying implies a sinister intent, one not there. Only in Insurrection is there a sinister intent.
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Old September 20 2012, 03:13 AM   #64
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Re: Prime Directive problem with "Homeward"

Vanyel wrote: View Post

Spying or learning? Spying implies a sinister intent, one not there. Only in Insurrection is there a sinister intent.
Spying or learning, the Federation is getting something out of the one-way relationship. Then looking the other way during a societies hour of need.
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Old September 20 2012, 03:40 AM   #65
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Re: Prime Directive problem with "Homeward"

You think it would be more prudent for the Federation to initiate first contact -wihout- "spying or learning" first?
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