General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah I think Orton is off on a movie shoot soon as well, I don't remember exactly when he starts but I expect Zigs to cash in pretty soon. I think I said before it will probably happen at Survivor Series...but I suppose that Hell in a Cell is just as possible.

[Delsaber]

I suppose if both Cena and Orton are indeed gone, Sheamus would be the next most popular face? A champion vs. champion match could be fun. It would play into Punk's best in the world complex, might help elevate the WHC a bit, and could really freshen up both title scenes depending on how much of a risk Creative is willing to take on it. Also throws in Ziggler's cash-in as a possible wildcard, too.

So of course it'll never happen.

[Mr Silver]

I thought this might interest some people. Since it's on Daily Motion, there shouldn't be any trouble viewing it for those viewers outside of the UK.

Basically, it's a documentary following a well known British (on the circuit, anyway) pro wrestling family. You may recognise that the daughter is current NXT Diva - Paige. This documentary highlights the eccentricities of the WWE hiring process for new talent, and does a great job at showing some of the differences between American and British pro wrestling.

The most fascinating and slightly troubling part for me was that the son - Zak Knight, impressed the WWE scouts, but was told to come back when he gained something like 20lbs of lean muscle, despite the fact he was ripped to an athletic standard already. Lean muscle mass is incredibly hard to gain, some people just cannot get above a certain lean weight and as a result, familiar performance-enhancing drugs are used. Sure, some people like Brock Lesnar are genetic anomalies, in that they are naturally able to build themselves up to 270+ lbs of pure muscle mass, but for many, it's a futile task.

This is one of the things that really irks me about WWE. A person can have an sculpted body that fits with the majority perception of an athlete, but are told it isn't good enough and don't recieve any interest from WWE. There are so many names on the indy circuit who would be assets to WWE, yet the best they can strive towards is TNA, which isn't exactly known for developing unknowns. All this is due to WWE's ridiculous ideas (and expectations) about wrestlers bodies and muscular mass.

[Samaritan]

Brock Lesnar is 6' 3" he isn't a genetic freak...it takes work but getting muscle on a 6' 3" frame isn't a magical thing...it takes work...he (was)is an athlete.

Sure, some people like Brock Lesnar are genetic anomalies, in that they are naturally able to build themselves up to 270+ lbs of pure muscle mass, but for many, it's a futile task.

ETA: Looking "ripped" and actually having muscle mass are two different things.

[Admiral_Young]

That's because Vince has a very specific idea of how he wants a body to look. He's always been enamoured with that superhero like physique. It doesn't even matter if that person can wrestle or not or has any talent, if they match the vision that Vince has of a person, then it's a pretty good bet they're going to be signed.

[Mr Silver]

Samaritan wrote:

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Brock Lesnar is 6' 3" he isn't a genetic freak...it takes work but getting muscle on a 6' 3" frame isn't a magical thing...it takes work...he (was)is an athlete.

Lesnar's level of muscular definition is extreme. There are very few people, athletes or not who could build that level of lean muscle mass. Lesnar's body fat percentage is probably between 8 and 14% - the level of a much smaller athlete, like a sprint runner or a swimmer.

Compare that to somebody like Mark Henry, who is a former Olympic power lifter. His muscle mass is not lean, he has a large percentage of body fat, as well as muscle that he required in order to gain the body mass needed to increase his muscle size and core strength. Henry is one of the majority people who aren't physically capable of increasing their muscle mass past a certain point, without piling on other body mass.

I'd say as much as 80% of non-naturally regulated competition body-builders have enhanced themselves with either steroids or HGH. Numerous retired bodybuilders have confessed to this, including Arnold Schwarzenegger.

That's why I class Lesnar as an anomaly, because he's naturally been able to build up a hell of a lot of lean muscle mass without taking steroids or HGH. I would also put Ryback and John Cena in this category, although sometimes I'm not particularly sure about Cena. I'll expand on this further if people want to hear it.

[Samaritan]

Admiral M wrote:

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Lesnar's level of muscular definition is extreme. There are very few people, athletes or not who could build that level of lean muscle mass. Lesnar's body fat percentage is probably between 8 and 14% - the level of a much smaller athlete, like a sprint runner or a swimmer.

Compare that to somebody like Mark Henry, who is a former Olympic power lifter. His muscle mass is not lean, he has a large percentage of body fat, as well as muscle that he required in order to gain the body mass needed to increase his muscle size and core strength. Henry is one of the majority people who aren't physically capable of increasing their muscle mass past a certain point, without piling on other body mass.

I'd say as much as 80% of non-naturally regulated competition body-builders have enhanced themselves with either steroids or HGH. Numerous retired bodybuilders have confessed to this, including Arnold Schwarzenegger.

That's why I class Lesnar as an anomaly, because he's naturally been able to build up a hell of a lot of lean muscle mass without taking steroids or HGH. I would also put Ryback and John Cena in this category, although sometimes I'm not particularly sure about Cena. I'll expand on this further if people want to hear it.

I don't think it takes drugs to obtain...it takes work and given his height it isn't impossible. I didn't like what you were implying given that WWE are going after ROH guys who aren't like Lesnar. I will watch the vid.

ETA: The drug issue is a separate issue...the WWE seems open to getting people who aren't cartoons.

+ Paige should have been part of either RAW or SD for a while now...why she is still on FCW/NXT is ridiculous.

[Ghost Bones]

Admiral M wrote:

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I thought this might interest some people. Since it's on Daily Motion, there shouldn't be any trouble viewing it for those viewers outside of the UK.

Yeah, I saw that. Was aiight.

Admiral_Young wrote:

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I think I said before it will probably happen at Survivor Series...but I suppose that Hell in a Cell is just as possible.

Nah, cos, there's a cell in the way. He can't just run in.

I suppose a champion vs. champion match could work. CM Punk could win, keeping him looking strong (and he has looked a bit weak lately, heel disease - while Sheamus has looked too strong if anything), and Ziggler could cash in on Sheamus as the cell comes up. It's what I'd do, but I doubt they'd have a PPV with no title defence. But there's a little history there already from a couple of Raws ago, making things a little more personal than Sheamus vs. Wade Barrett out of nowhere. What a bloody silly PPV it is, really.

[Delsaber]

I was musing about the possibility of working the AJ/Booker friction into it, get them angry and indignant enough at each other to tease the champion vs. champion match as a potential unification of the titles. Then have Ziggler rush down and take the WHC before it can happen.

Or, hell, have Punk unify the WWE and WHC titles, then have Ziggler take that. Welcome to my John Cena-free WWE fantasy booking land, folks!

Somehow it all ends with Tajiri misting everyone.

[Mr Silver]

Delsaber wrote:

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I was musing about the possibility of working the AJ/Booker friction into it, get them angry and indignant enough at each other to tease the champion vs. champion match as a potential unification of the titles. Then have Ziggler rush down and take the WHC before it can happen.

Or, hell, have Punk unify the WWE and WHC titles, then have Ziggler take that. Welcome to my John Cena-free WWE fantasy booking land, folks!

Somehow it all ends with Tajiri misting everyone.

For Dolph Ziggler, there would be no greater nod than winning both world titles. The problem is, as I'm sure everyone is aware, is that Dolph Ziggler isn't nearly over enough yet, nor is he a household name in the sense that the likes of John Cena, Randy Orton and CM Punk are.

I refer you all to the last great unification in December 2001, when Chris Jericho defeated both The Rock and Steve Austin to capture the WCW and WWF titles. What followed was a title reign that bombed, largely due to the presence of The Rock, Steve Austin and the returning Triple H. Jericho was lost in the shuffle, particularly when Hogan, Nash and Hall also showed up.

It was honestly such a "meh" reign, that it's easier to go with the idea that Jericho's "true" world title run didn't occur until 2008. There is quite a large possibility that Dolph Ziggler's MITB reign could end up like Jericho's undisputed run. Ziggler has technically been a world champion before whe he was awarded the WHC because Edge used the then-banned spear in a match. However, he went on to lose it back to Edge only a few minutes later.

WWE must book something big for Ziggler, otherwise he may never break the proverbial glass ceiling in WWE.

[Delsaber]

In that case, having Punk retain the WWE title until at least January is the right call. Ziggler could then chase Punk's unified championship for a while, with loopholey GM talk justifying his MitB contract as still perfectly valid, and when he eventually wins it'll be revealed that it only truly affects the old WHC, resulting in the two titles being split up again with Punk holding on to the spinner.

Or, delay the unification ceremony until the RAW after Hell in the Cell, and have Ziggler crash the party then, but with the same WHC stipulation as above. In either scenario, Punk and Ziggler come out looking strong and the only real casualty is Sheamus, who'd benefit from a refresher angle anyway. Months of fighting off ADR has done nothing for him or the WHC. Let him chase for a while, let him be hungry again.

If they must insert Cena somewhere, he could assist Ziggler in some way so that Punk doesn't necessarily have to lose the supposedly-unified title to Ziggler cleanly.

[Admiral_Young]

I doubt Vince would unify the titles again. I kind of miss the WWE Undisputed Championship. It was a good design.

[Ghost Bones]

Why does everyone wants world title unification? There's more than enough talent to justify there being two.

[Sheep]

Ghost Bones wrote:

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Why does everyone wants world title unification? There's more than enough talent to justify there being two.

Not when the WWE bookers only push Cena, Sheamus and Punk as actual contenders with the occasional oddball tossed in for a PPV or two at most (e.g., Bryan, Big Show, Bork).

[Icemizer]

Punk unifies it and defeats all in his way until Jericho returns and beats him for it. Yea that would be a long way down the road. So long in fact people would have forgotten the entire Punk/Jericho feud.