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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 18 2012, 12:53 PM   #31
JarodRussell
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Speaking of Rura Penthe, I find this funny:

Original Rura Penthe vs. Abramstrek Rura Penthe

Original Delta Vega vs. Abramstrek Delta Vega

Someone made a funny mix up, I suppose.
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Old September 18 2012, 02:01 PM   #32
Timo
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

The original original Rura Penthe was of course both. That is, Jules Verne had it as a hot place, probably somewhere in the Pacific, while Leo Tolstoy had it in deep Siberia.

Anybody know the etymology of the name?

But why would the Narada need to be in Klingon space in the first place?
To meet Spock?

Remember that when Nero emerged from the future, he was at a location where Robau's crew was concerned the Klingons were just 75,000 km away or something like that. Now, we don't have a specific reason to think that Nero and Spock would have emerged from the future at separate locations. If there were Klingons at the point of emergence in 2233, there might be a Klingon armada there in 2258 as well.

On the other hand, it was said in the 2258 emergence scene that Nero had predicted the location of Spock's appearance, not just the time. But Ayel might be speaking of fine-tuning: Nero might have calculated where exactly within the already known star system they would have to wait so that Spock could be grabbed mere seconds after reaching the 23rd century and before getting his bearings.

In that scene, Nero also made it clear that they had indeed been "waiting" for the past 25 years. Doesn't mean they couldn't have had hilarious adventures in the meantime. But Romulans would be long-lived and patient - and waiting might be the only thing this bunch would be capable of.

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Old September 18 2012, 02:54 PM   #33
The Wormhole
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Speaking of Rura Penthe, I find this funny:

Original Rura Penthe vs. Abramstrek Rura Penthe

Original Delta Vega vs. Abramstrek Delta Vega

Someone made a funny mix up, I suppose.
I cought on to that around the time the movie came out on DVD and I first saw the Rura Penthe scene. I agree, it is pretty funny.
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Old September 19 2012, 12:13 AM   #34
Set Harth
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Timo wrote: View Post
To meet Spock?
Nero doesn't have to enter Klingon space to meet Spock.

Timo wrote: View Post
Now, we don't have a specific reason to think that Nero and Spock would have emerged from the future at separate locations.
Actually, we do:

Timo wrote: View Post
On the other hand, it was said in the 2258 emergence scene that Nero had predicted the location of Spock's appearance, not just the time.
There is also the fact that the film said Spock's emergence point was in the Neutral Zone. This nomenclature, according to its typical use from TNG onward, means the Romulan Neutral Zone; where the film's script refers to the other Neutral Zone we know about, it uses the term "Klingon Neutral Zone", though this reference did not appear in the film. It seems that Nero emerged on the Federation side of the border anyway, as evidenced by the walla heard on the Kelvin, so that alone would put them in different locations. We can also see this from the implied connection ( in the Federation's perception ) between the "lightning storm" in the Neutral Zone and the reports of seismic activity on Vulcan, since we know from Unification that Vulcan and the RNZ are in relative spatial proximity.
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Last edited by Set Harth; September 19 2012 at 12:24 AM.
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Old September 19 2012, 12:20 AM   #35
Delsaber
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Another convienent plot device that doesn't stand up to scutiny.
Kind of like the Jem'Hadar leaving Worf and Garak's runabout floating around for no reason.
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Old September 19 2012, 12:47 AM   #36
The Wormhole
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Delsaber wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Another convienent plot device that doesn't stand up to scutiny.
Kind of like the Jem'Hadar leaving Worf and Garak's runabout floating around for no reason.
Yeah, but that got nitpicked in the show itself. Section 31 considered that as grounds to investigate whether or not Bashir was a Dominion spy.

Besides, it's a Starfleet runabout. There's nothing special about it that would give the Dominion a tactical edge. Founders who infiltrated DS9 probably already provided copies of the blueprints and schematics. On the other hand, Narada was an uber-avdanced ship from over 100 years in the future. One would think the Klingons would want to study or use it as opposed to leaving it impounded on a prison colony.
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Old September 19 2012, 01:47 AM   #37
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
While I'm aware of where the comics go with it, my comments were intended to speak only to the movie's content as a basis for fan speculation, nothing more.
I know, but it seems many people with questions about Nero have not heard of the IDW "Nero" mini-series at all.

Procutus wrote: View Post
Which then brings up the question of what the hell were they doing for 25 years if they weren't in a Klingon prison?
Well, whatever they were doing, Nero lost an ear tip during that time.


Probably ripped it off in frustration while waiting for Old Spock to appear.


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Old September 19 2012, 06:16 AM   #38
Timo
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

There is also the fact that the film said Spock's emergence point was in the Neutral Zone.
...A location historically established as teeming with Klingon warships!

That is, it would in fact be ideal for the purposes of the plot if both Nero and Spock departed the future at a spot proximal to the poor, late Romulus, and emerged at the very same spot in the past - a spot close to Vulcan, but also challenged by Klingons who, as per ST2 at least, are keen on loitering where the Treaty of Algeron (at least later) forbids Romulan and Federation forces from being.

Section 31 considered that as grounds to investigate whether or not Bashir was a Dominion spy.
...An issue never quite resolved!

It might well be that a Changeling was supposed to replace not just Bashir (in a type of mission that would inevitably result in the agent's cover being blown, along with Bajor's star) but also Garak, and the runabout was waiting for the made-up "daring escape". While Garak later on did act somewhat suspiciously, we would probably be best off speculating that the Dominion plan failed in this respect, and it was the real Garak who escaped after all.

Well, whatever they were doing, Nero lost an ear tip during that time.
Amusingly enough, we don't know even that much. After all, the movie has a scene or two where the missing ear is reversed, forcing us to believe that the tip isn't missing all the time. Perhaps Nero wears a prosthesis that itches, so he frequently removes it? Thus, any "early" scene of him showing an intact ear fails to be proof of his ear being intact "back then".

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Old September 20 2012, 12:25 AM   #39
Set Harth
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Timo wrote: View Post
There is also the fact that the film said Spock's emergence point was in the Neutral Zone.
...A location historically established as teeming with Klingon warships!
Again, you're thinking of the wrong Neutral Zone. Besides, even if the Romulan Neutral Zone were 'teeming with Klingon warships', it wouldn't be teeming with Klingon prison planets. It wouldn't be in Klingon space. If the prison break plotline is discarded, Nero would have had no reason to be in Klingon space at all, unless it was just for the hell of it.

Timo wrote:
and emerged at the very same spot in the past
Nero's arrival point isn't even in the Klingon Neutral Zone. It's on the Federation side of the border, where the Kelvin had reason to be. From the IMSDB script: how far are we from the Klingon Neutral Zone? This is why the suggestion that the anomaly could be Klingon in nature is heard being challenged early in the Kelvin sequence. With one arrival point being in a Neutral Zone and the other not being in a Neutral Zone, we know they are not the same location from that alone. We can also see this simply by observing the surroundings of the two arrival points in the film. There is no apparent nearby star in the vicinity of Spock's arrival point.
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Last edited by Set Harth; September 20 2012 at 12:42 AM.
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Old September 20 2012, 12:30 AM   #40
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
There is also the fact that the film said Spock's emergence point was in the Neutral Zone.
...A location historically established as teeming with Klingon warships!
Again, you're thinking of the wrong Neutral Zone. Besides, even if the Romulan Neutral Zone were 'teeming with Klingon warships', it wouldn't be teeming with Klingon prison planets. It wouldn't be in Klingon space. If the prison break plotline is discarded, Nero would have had no reason to be in Klingon space at all, unless it was just for the hell of it.
Considering his motivations really make no sense to begin with, I don't think "for the hell of it" is a bad explanation.
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Old September 23 2012, 12:57 AM   #41
Therin of Andor
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Timo wrote: View Post
Neutral Zone: A location historically established as teeming with Klingon warships!
Except, aren't the neutral zones in ST places where neither side is supposed to cross over or travel in?
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Old September 23 2012, 12:48 PM   #42
JarodRussell
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Neutral Zone: A location historically established as teeming with Klingon warships!
Except, aren't the neutral zones in ST places where neither side is supposed to cross over or travel in?
That's what Neutral Zones are usually about.
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Old September 24 2012, 09:55 AM   #43
Timo
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

...Which means warships and sinister plots are regularly found inside them in any episode or movie with dramatic content.

Does anybody have any insight into what "Rura Penthe" means? Apart from "rura" being the Latinesque indicator that this is land of some sort, that is. Land of pain? Land of penalty? Land of the fifth sort of hell? Penthouse land?

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Old September 24 2012, 10:21 PM   #44
Set Harth
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Timo wrote: View Post
...Which means warships and sinister plots are regularly found inside them in any episode or movie with dramatic content.
But not prison planets. And it's still the wrong Neutral Zone.
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Old September 24 2012, 10:51 PM   #45
M'Sharak
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Re: How did the Nero, his crew and ship escape Rura Penthe?

Timo wrote: View Post

Does anybody have any insight into what "Rura Penthe" means? Apart from "rura" being the Latinesque indicator that this is land of some sort, that is. Land of pain? Land of penalty? Land of the fifth sort of hell? Penthouse land?
If it's explained anywhere, it'll probably be in War and Peace (but I never did get through that one, so I can neither confirm nor deny.) Jules Verne apparently never used the name, though; it seems to have been introduced into the 20,000 Leagues story by the Disney folks who made the 1954 movie adaptation.
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