Why was Archer such a terrible fighter?

Dream · September 18 2012, 01:42 AM

Was it intention how the writers wrote Archer to be such a wuss? He kept getting his ass kicked!

Picard was a 60 year old man when TNG started and was a better fighter than him!

Also Archer was captured 28 times, that's probably a record.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ent.htm

billcosby · September 18 2012, 02:15 AM

I think he enjoyed getting the piss pounded out of him. Didn't a Xindi say that to him once?

Skywalker · September 18 2012, 02:21 AM

He was the first captain out there; they hadn't learned to fight yet.

R. Star · September 18 2012, 02:33 AM

Dream wrote:

Was it intention how the writers wrote Archer to be such a wuss? He kept getting his ass kicked!

Picard was a 60 year old man when TNG started and was a better fighter than him!

Also Archer was captured 28 times, that's probably a record.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ent.htm

If I had to guess it was to show how serious/threatening the antagonist of the week is and because killing redshirts by the dozens was already cliche.

T'Girl · September 18 2012, 02:39 AM

In addition to Star trek, one of my favorite shows is NCIS, the shows lead character Jethro Gibbs is a absolute badass, except he just can't fight hand to hand,. When he gets into it with a suspect or whoever he often barely holds his own. or gets trashed. That isn't the way the America Hero is usually depicted, but it doesn't diminish him overall, he's still a badass.

John Archer personally sees himself as a intellectual, this is his self image. He want to be urban, achieving his goal through words. He just never learned to fight, not effectively.

grabthars hammer · September 18 2012, 03:59 AM

On the contrary, his lack of fighting skill makes him all the more courageous heading into a fight, knowing he's probably gonna take a beating. Plus, many of his fights were against physically superior persons; wacko Vulcans, giant reptile Xindi and augmented dudes.

teacake · September 18 2012, 07:42 AM

When you are living in the harmonious Federation I guess you have little practice with physical aggression. I assume in the future starfleet upped it's training in this.

King Daniel into Darkness · September 18 2012, 02:05 PM

Didn't Archer mop the floor with a couple of Vulcans in season 4? I assume the RL reason is that the director forgot the whole "three times human strength" thing from TOS, but still...

horatio83 · September 18 2012, 03:30 PM

ENT showed that humankind was a bit naive when they went out there, desiring to peacefully explore the galaxy yet meeting quite some unfriendly fellows. Archer's lack of physical fighting training (First Flight; besides being a pilot the guy didn't have any training) merely reflects this general human naivety.

grabthars hammer · September 18 2012, 03:41 PM

It was still decades before Kirk introduced the two-handed punch to the back.

Robert D. Robot · September 18 2012, 06:10 PM

^ Yes. Exactly!

Amazing how that two-handed chop was so effective at completely incapacitating the bad guys!....

Most WWF tapes had been lost during WWIII, and the world had lost all knowledge of classic pro wrestling tactics. Fortunately for Kirk, tapes were rediscovered in the early 2200s and he was able to learn and use these moves. Poor old Archer was on his own.

Use of Time · September 18 2012, 06:36 PM

Archer was a glorified astronaut. It's like saying Neil Armstrong wasn't badass (he was by the way) Enterprise was about protraying humanity as more of a fragile race stepping into the unknown. The other shows featured an already prominent and mighty Federation which the rest of the galaxy took seriously.

JiNX-01 · September 18 2012, 07:40 PM

I think it was a metaphor for Archer being in over his head.

Skywalker · September 18 2012, 08:12 PM

It was actually done in preparation for TheGodBen's eventual Archer Abuse counter during his review of ENT.

Delsaber · September 18 2012, 08:54 PM

Skywalker wrote:

He was the first captain out there; they hadn't learned to fight yet.

This makes the most sense to me. I like to think that Archer getting his ass so thoroughly trounced is part of what led to Starfleet expanding its physical training programmes to include stuff like Sisko's wrestling team.

That and the integration of MACO, I suppose.

September 18 2012, 01:42 AM	#1
Dream Admiral	Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? Was it intention how the writers wrote Archer to be such a wuss? He kept getting his ass kicked! Picard was a 60 year old man when TNG started and was a better fighter than him! Also Archer was captured 28 times, that's probably a record. http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ent.htm __________________ TWoP Forums .

September 18 2012, 02:15 AM	#2
billcosby Commodore Location: billcosby	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? I think he enjoyed getting the piss pounded out of him. Didn't a Xindi say that to him once? __________________ My 1st Edition TrekCCG virtual expansion: http://billcosbytrekccg.blogspot.com/

September 18 2012, 02:21 AM	#3
Skywalker Admiral	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? He was the first captain out there; they hadn't learned to fight yet.

September 18 2012, 02:39 AM	#5
T'Girl Vice Admiral	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? In addition to Star trek, one of my favorite shows is NCIS, the shows lead character Jethro Gibbs is a absolute badass, except he just can't fight hand to hand,. When he gets into it with a suspect or whoever he often barely holds his own. or gets trashed. That isn't the way the America Hero is usually depicted, but it doesn't diminish him overall, he's still a badass. John Archer personally sees himself as a intellectual, this is his self image. He want to be urban, achieving his goal through words. He just never learned to fight, not effectively.

September 18 2012, 03:59 AM	#6
grabthars hammer Captain Location: New Jersey	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? On the contrary, his lack of fighting skill makes him all the more courageous heading into a fight, knowing he's probably gonna take a beating. Plus, many of his fights were against physically superior persons; wacko Vulcans, giant reptile Xindi and augmented dudes.

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September 18 2012, 07:42 AM	#7
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? When you are living in the harmonious Federation I guess you have little practice with physical aggression. I assume in the future starfleet upped it's training in this. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

September 18 2012, 02:05 PM	#8
King Daniel into Darkness Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? Didn't Archer mop the floor with a couple of Vulcans in season 4? I assume the RL reason is that the director forgot the whole "three times human strength" thing from TOS, but still... __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

September 18 2012, 03:30 PM	#9
horatio83 Commodore	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? ENT showed that humankind was a bit naive when they went out there, desiring to peacefully explore the galaxy yet meeting quite some unfriendly fellows. Archer's lack of physical fighting training (First Flight; besides being a pilot the guy didn't have any training) merely reflects this general human naivety. __________________ The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer. - former US Secretary of State and unconvicted war criminal Henry Kissinger

September 18 2012, 03:41 PM	#10
grabthars hammer Captain Location: New Jersey	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? It was still decades before Kirk introduced the two-handed punch to the back.

September 18 2012, 06:10 PM	#11
Robert D. Robot Captain Location: Pre-Warp Civilization of New England	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? ^ Yes. Exactly! Amazing how that two-handed chop was so effective at completely incapacitating the bad guys!.... Most WWF tapes had been lost during WWIII, and the world had lost all knowledge of classic pro wrestling tactics. Fortunately for Kirk, tapes were rediscovered in the early 2200s and he was able to learn and use these moves. Poor old Archer was on his own.

September 18 2012, 06:36 PM	#12
Use of Time Fleet Captain Location: Va. Beach, VA	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? Archer was a glorified astronaut. It's like saying Neil Armstrong wasn't badass (he was by the way) Enterprise was about protraying humanity as more of a fragile race stepping into the unknown. The other shows featured an already prominent and mighty Federation which the rest of the galaxy took seriously. __________________ Searching for something, a million miles and a ways to go.

September 18 2012, 07:40 PM	#13
JiNX-01 Asst. Chief Engineer NX01 Location: Under Cmdr. Tucker	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? I think it was a metaphor for Archer being in over his head. __________________ I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. -- Neil Armstrong 1930-2012 --

September 18 2012, 08:12 PM	#14
Skywalker Admiral	Re: Why was Archer such a terrible fighter? It was actually done in preparation for TheGodBen's eventual Archer Abuse counter during his review of ENT.