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Stargate Sir, we can't call it the Enterprise forum.

 
 
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Old September 16 2012, 05:04 AM   #91
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

teacake wrote: View Post
Okay I'm done. Fairly irritated that it finally started getting stargatey and then it was cancelled. I'm wondering if it had started out a little more exciting with aliens and stuff actually happening if the ratings would have been sufficient? Or was there some Stargate fatigue going on?

I really enjoyed Common Descent and Epilogue.

The finale was good too.. I'm going to assume that Eli on the observation deck with a grin on his face means he figured out how to fix the pod.

I think one of the shows weaknesses which the improvements of season 2 don't fix is the characters. So many are dull or one note. They ramped up the humor in season 2, the passive aggressive bickering with Brody and Volker was an upbeat addition. While SG;A had one note characters for the first couple seasons at least they were fun in their own way, they were colorful. Here the drabness is just too much, especially with the ship so drab. The arguing between Rush, Young and Wray is tedious, none of the color Rodney brought to bickering. If Rush had just confided in someone to tease us along and think that he had something really exciting in his plans..but no, just lots of terse condescension from all three of them.

Still, might have upped the drama in season 3
I hated everyone in S1, it was a trial getting through it (I woulda been happy to see the entire cast shoved out an airlock, and a new crew find the ship. S2, finally, the characters gave me something to latch onto, at least half of S2 first 10 episodes felt worth watching and I rarely wished to see anyone airlocked. S2 second half, I liked about every one of the episodes, and never felt the impulse to watch one of the regular's horrible death. I think S3 would've been really good, it's a shame they had to make the first season so unrelatable to me
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Old September 16 2012, 05:09 AM   #92
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

cylkoth wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Okay I'm done. Fairly irritated that it finally started getting stargatey and then it was cancelled. I'm wondering if it had started out a little more exciting with aliens and stuff actually happening if the ratings would have been sufficient? Or was there some Stargate fatigue going on?
As with Star Trek, the fatigue was entirely on the part of the powers that were, not the audience. I really hate the coining of the term ''franchise fatigue'' because it allowed Berman era Trek to dismiss the true reasons behind the waning interest in Trek-fatigue over the lackluster writing and stories, and place blame squarely on the shoulders of the audience, too dense to 'get' what the writers are dishing out. And the Gate showrunners, genre fans no different than us, chose to follow that example and blame hostile, disappointed fans rather than own up to the weaknesses that were actually behind the sinking of the ship.
I don't recall Berman ever making that claim. And even if had and he believed it why start Enterprise in the first place. I can't say the audience is entire blameless either, but then in the case of Stargate Universe it was put opposite NCIS: LA one of the top rated shows on the air, instead of the normal summer runs that SG1 and Atlantis enjoyed. Teh breakup of Sci-Fi's Friday night line up is one of the major causes IMO for the demise of Universe. Of course like Star Trek there was no let up between shows, so I do think there's a level of fatgue there.
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Old September 16 2012, 06:37 AM   #93
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

Sindatur wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Okay I'm done. Fairly irritated that it finally started getting stargatey and then it was cancelled. I'm wondering if it had started out a little more exciting with aliens and stuff actually happening if the ratings would have been sufficient? Or was there some Stargate fatigue going on?

I really enjoyed Common Descent and Epilogue.

The finale was good too.. I'm going to assume that Eli on the observation deck with a grin on his face means he figured out how to fix the pod.

I think one of the shows weaknesses which the improvements of season 2 don't fix is the characters. So many are dull or one note. They ramped up the humor in season 2, the passive aggressive bickering with Brody and Volker was an upbeat addition. While SG;A had one note characters for the first couple seasons at least they were fun in their own way, they were colorful. Here the drabness is just too much, especially with the ship so drab. The arguing between Rush, Young and Wray is tedious, none of the color Rodney brought to bickering. If Rush had just confided in someone to tease us along and think that he had something really exciting in his plans..but no, just lots of terse condescension from all three of them.

Still, might have upped the drama in season 3
I hated everyone in S1, it was a trial getting through it (I woulda been happy to see the entire cast shoved out an airlock, and a new crew find the ship. S2, finally, the characters gave me something to latch onto, at least half of S2 first 10 episodes felt worth watching and I rarely wished to see anyone airlocked. S2 second half, I liked about every one of the episodes, and never felt the impulse to watch one of the regular's horrible death. I think S3 would've been really good, it's a shame they had to make the first season so unrelatable to me
By the very end I was quite fond of Eli who I liked all along, thought Dale Volker was hot and had a bit of a thing for Park. Also, Greer made me laugh. That's my peak relationship with the characters.

Still, season 3 should have happened.
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Old September 17 2012, 02:13 AM   #94
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

Yea, if my catastrophe could've spared Eli, I would've made the effort. Park, yea, she was usually pretty alright.

Greer, I hated him, he was so arrogant and had such a large chip on his shoulder, until he got trapped in that underground Earth Military base. After that, they developed his character, and I liked him more and more each episode until the end.

Rush, when he came back, after the Rebellion, he was much easier to take. I really liked him by the End too (And I've loved Mr Gold/Rumplestiltskin since the beginning on Once Upon A Time). I also liked him alot in Heroes Season 4
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Old September 17 2012, 06:25 AM   #95
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

Rush is one of the most repulsive looking people I've ever seen on television. He really needs a hairdresser and to stop parting his hair in the middle like that. I had trouble looking at him for most of the show.

Yes, I am very shallow.
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Old September 17 2012, 10:49 PM   #96
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

AJ86 wrote: View Post
bullethead wrote: View Post
Them not being all one big happy family isn't the problem. The problem is the fact that aside from Rush, none of the supposed leadership (Young or Wray) seems to be able to figure out that they should focus on increasing the odds of their survival instead of wasting time and energy on petty squabbles that decreased their ability to survive in the long term.
But... why do you think there are these "squabbles" are happening in the first place? It's because they're all desperate to survive, but disagree on how to best accomplish that. What sane adult would hush up and do what their leader told them to even if they thought he was inept and liable to get them killed? The military are trained to, sure. But the civilians? Fuck that.
Other than Dr. Rush, no one seemed to really understand what was going on. I could understand if they were arguing over competing plans over the best way to get home. But no one besides Dr. Rush even seemed to have the foggiest idea of where to start on that front. Mostly, they were just bickering because that's what so much of sci-fi is nowadays: People bickering like petty jerks whenever the going gets tough.

teacake wrote: View Post
I'm wondering if it had started out a little more exciting with aliens and stuff actually happening if the ratings would have been sufficient? Or was there some Stargate fatigue going on?
Hard to say. IIRC, the ratings for Stargate Atlantis were on the decline towards the end, which is why the Sci-Fi Channel ended the show. So, the Stargate franchise was not on the strongest footing to begin with. But then SGU just killed it by being slow & depressing & nothing at all like the 2 previous shows. And the people who might have been interested in a dark, broody show like SGU didn't give it a chance because it was related to cheesy popcorn shows like SG-1 & Atlantis.

My personal theory is that SGU would have been more successful if either:
1. It had been the 1st new spin-off, not the 2nd. When Atlantis began, I think fans would have been open to the spin-off taking a significantly darker tone than SG-1. But when Atlantis demonstrated that it was just going to be the same show with different characters, that created a pattern. Once that pattern was established, I don't think too many fans were interested in a 2nd spin-off that radically reinvented the franchise that most fans thought wasn't broke to begin with.
OR
2. SGU had aired concurrently with the 6th season of Atlantis. I think fans might have been open to a much darker incarnation of the Stargate franchise if it wasn't the ONLY kind of Stargate they were getting at the time. If they'd set up Atlantis as the light flavor & SGU as the dark flavor and put them next to each other, I think people might have been intrigued enough to give it a try. But when Atlantis got cancelled and SGU became the only 'Gate in town, I think most fans felt safer jumping ship altogether and basking in their warm memories (and DVDs) of SG-1 & Atlantis rather than try to muddle along with this new abomination.
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Old September 17 2012, 11:17 PM   #97
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

Who ARE these people that don't watch everything.
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Old September 17 2012, 11:36 PM   #98
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

As a TV viewer a like a range of show, some lighthearted some a bit more serious. I liked SG:U and I suspect I would have liked it if it had been a bit more lighthearted. But keeping the same formula that you've used previously doesn't mean it'll work this time around. I'll say it again it could still have failed had it been more in tone with SG-1 and SG:A and instead of hearing cries of 'They changed it now it sucks' we have cries of 'they should have done something different'.

No matter what they did they couldn't win. Quite simply you can't please evryone all of the time.
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Old September 18 2012, 12:13 AM   #99
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

Perhaps. But I still think that the radically darker tone managed to drive away many of the franchise's existing fans. Perhaps neither was a perfect solution. Perhaps they just never should have cancelled Atlantis in the first place. (Ding!) But I have no doubt that more fans were driven away faster by SGU's darkness than would have been driven away by a gradual realization of sameness.
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Old September 18 2012, 12:42 AM   #100
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
Perhaps. But I still think that the radically darker tone managed to drive away many of the franchise's existing fans. Perhaps neither was a perfect solution. Perhaps they just never should have cancelled Atlantis in the first place. (Ding!) But I have no doubt that more fans were driven away faster by SGU's darkness than would have been driven away by a gradual realization of sameness.
For me, it wasn't the darker tone, that frustrated my ability to like it in the First Season (And would have driven me away if I was the type to give up so quickly), it was the lack of characters that you wanted to see, I just hated most of the characters, and not in a "love to hate" kind of way or understanding they were there to cause drama for someone I did like. I actually felt they were damaging the show. Non-stop bickering and I didn't care who won or lost or scored points or lost ground. Also, nothing gave me any reason to look forward to the next episode.
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Old September 18 2012, 01:04 AM   #101
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

[QUOTE=The Borgified Corpse;6976285]
AJ86 wrote: View Post

Hard to say. IIRC, the ratings for Stargate Atlantis were on the decline towards the end, which is why the Sci-Fi Channel ended the show. So, the Stargate franchise was not on the strongest footing to begin with. But then SGU just killed it by being slow & depressing & nothing at all like the 2 previous shows. And the people who might have been interested in a dark, broody show like SGU didn't give it a chance because it was related to cheesy popcorn shows like SG-1 & Atlantis.
Oh boy...well, the story on just who cancelled ATL can get pretty muddled, but it's been repeatedly said that it was MGM that pulled the plug. Buoyed by the success of the SG1 films, they thought they could save money by moving ATL over to the direct to DVD side. Plus with the producers strongly resistant to running two shows simultaneously again, they pretty much sealed ATL's fate.
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Old September 18 2012, 07:21 AM   #102
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

Sindatur wrote: View Post
The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
Perhaps. But I still think that the radically darker tone managed to drive away many of the franchise's existing fans. Perhaps neither was a perfect solution. Perhaps they just never should have cancelled Atlantis in the first place. (Ding!) But I have no doubt that more fans were driven away faster by SGU's darkness than would have been driven away by a gradual realization of sameness.
For me, it wasn't the darker tone, that frustrated my ability to like it in the First Season (And would have driven me away if I was the type to give up so quickly), it was the lack of characters that you wanted to see, I just hated most of the characters, and not in a "love to hate" kind of way or understanding they were there to cause drama for someone I did like. I actually felt they were damaging the show. Non-stop bickering and I didn't care who won or lost or scored points or lost ground. Also, nothing gave me any reason to look forward to the next episode.
I didn't even think it was particularly dark. What darkness there was I enjoyed, it was at least something going on. It really picked up for me when they brought in the blue aliens and starting having more stargatey eps, I think they should have started with that outside conflict from the beginning. Focusing on internal conflict didn't work well as the characters didn't have any hooks that made you care about them, or their agendas. They were just a bunch of people arguing. Compare it to the conflict Adama had with Roslin or Lee had with his father (annoying as I found the latter). You were invested in these characters and you understood where there agendas came from, they weren't just preferences and chain of command stubbornness.

So generating conflict from outside that group of people would have kept season one from being so sludgy.

Also, Telford: SO HORRIBLE. Just, blech character, very unpleasant.
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Old September 18 2012, 07:23 AM   #103
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

teacake wrote: View Post
Rush is one of the most repulsive looking people I've ever seen on television. He really needs a hairdresser and to stop parting his hair in the middle like that. I had trouble looking at him for most of the show.

Yes, I am very shallow.
He's in a new show, I believe, and he is sporting the exact same look.
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Old September 18 2012, 03:51 PM   #104
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
Other than Dr. Rush, no one seemed to really understand what was going on. I could understand if they were arguing over competing plans over the best way to get home. But no one besides Dr. Rush even seemed to have the foggiest idea of where to start on that front.
And how could they? They were not the expedition meant to go to Destiny, they were a group of misfits who happened to be staffing Icarus Base. The only reason Rush knew the score was because he'd been planning this from the get-go, and was their expect in alien technology. Also, if you remember, it was Young refusal to listen to Rush that prompted the mutiny in the first place.

Mostly, they were just bickering because that's what so much of sci-fi is nowadays: People bickering like petty jerks whenever the going gets tough.
Because that's what people do. Sci-fi on TV has moved past the Trek paradigm of virtuous heroes exploring the galaxy. It doesn't ring true. Human beings aren't like that. And I'd love to hear an example of people bickering for the sake of bickering on the show.
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Old September 18 2012, 04:08 PM   #105
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Re: Ewww.. SGU let's have some freaking protocol

True none of them signed up to be stranded on the Destiny, but with a global talent pool to call upon you would have thought they might have been able to get less of a bunch of misfits.
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