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Old September 16 2012, 07:14 PM   #106
Sci's Avatar
Location: Montgomery County, State of Maryland
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
... but I can't imagine that Federation Membership could be based on anything else. You can't base it on species, after all
Problem is ... that isn't what we saw. Amanda wasn't a Vulcan-woman, she was a Earth-woman, this is how her son referred to her. Amanda never became a "Vulcan," even though she (apparently) lived on Vulcan since before Spock's birth and was married to a Vulcan.

Deanna Troi's Human father was never referred to as a Betazed, even through he lived on the planet, and he was married to a Betazed.
There is no reason whatsoever to think that they are referring to their legal citizenship rather than culture.

So was Amanda represented in the Federation Council by the representative of her Human species, or the representative of world of her birth, or the representative of world she happen to be living on?
Well, let me put it this way:

I was born and raised in Ohio, and attended college in Ohio. I very much consider myself an Ohioan. I currently live in Maryland near the border and work in Washington, D.C. I still think of myself as an Ohioan, and find that Marylanders, Washingtonians, and Virginians are all kind of weird in their own unique ways. I doubt I'll ever fully acclimate to the East Coast, and I still refer to myself -- and am referred to by others -- as an Ohioan. This does not mean that I am not legally a citizen of the State of Maryland, or that I am not legally represented by the United States Senators and a Representative from the State of Maryland. I don't get to vote for a United States Senator from the State of Ohio this year, and I'm not represented in the Congress by a United States Senator for White People.

Amanda may be referred to as an Earth woman. She may well think of herself as person of Earth, first and foremost. She may well never fully acclimate to Vulcan culture and may never really think of herself as a Vulcan. None of that precludes her from obtaining Vulcan citizenship and being represented on the Federation Council by the Federation Councillor from the Confederacy of Vulcan (established in the novel DTI: Forgotten History to be a Vulcan female named T'Nuri during TOS, who served as Chair of the Federation Council's science sub-council), and none of that indicates she gets to vote for the Federation Councillor from United Earth or that she is represented by a Federation Councillor for Human Federates.
Democratic socialism is the hope of human freedom.
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Old September 17 2012, 03:43 AM   #107
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Location: Turkeystan
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Sci wrote: View Post
I was born and raised in Ohio [snip] I don't get to vote for a United States Senator from the State of Ohio this year.
But if you went, not to another American state, instead to work in another country and stayed a American citizen, you would be able to vote in Ohio state elections and in federal elections as well.

Well, let me put it this way
I'm on planet Washington (but born on planet West Germany), but I can't vote for a likely candidate for the next presidential term from my home planet. So I have to vote for (one) the candidate from planet Hawaii who moved to planet Illinois, or (two) the candidate from planet Michigan who moved to planet Massachusetts.

Both of these men are of species American, as I am, so I can vote for one of them

Even though I was born on planet West Germany, I don't vote for species German candidates. Legally I can't, because I'm species American.

As my parents (both from planet Washington) moved about the Federation during their military careers, they voted in planet Washington's many elections by absentee ballot. They did not vote as residents of whatever planet they simply found themselves on, even through they often lived there for years.

Even after both my parents exiting the military and we were living on planet Brazil for a year, they sent ballots to planet Washington..

Amanda is from planet Earth, and is species Human, she can vote "absentee" for species Human issues and candidates. Even if she were born on Vulcan she could vote Human. She could (if she wished) run for species Human political offices. For as long as she lives on Vulcan she would be a resident foreign species, not a "Vulcan."

It is possible that the Vulcans would let long term resident foreign species vote in local and regional elections (their choice), but as a "Earth-woman" she could vote in major Earth issues and affairs. Thing that effect her species. Just as Vulcans residing on Earth would make their voices know back home on major Vulcan issues.

What I'm suggesting is just like what we have in America today. Over 6 million Americans civilians live abroad, plus about another 0.3 million military. some will be outside for years, or perminately. They're all American citizens, they can vote in elections. Percentage wise, that would be like 140 million Humans living "off-world."

Look at how many people live inside America, without being citizens. Approximately 30 million, they don't vote in elections.

None of that precludes her from obtaining Vulcan citizenship and being represented on the Federation Council ...
None of that requires her to be legally a Vulcan person. As long as Amanda is selecting a representative, it makes no difference if that person lives on the same planet as she. The representative does need to represent Amanda's views and beliefs.

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