The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations - Page 2

sbk1234 · September 15 2012, 05:30 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

Every time they recycled shots for the films it's cheap and disappointing. The reused spacedock shots in TWOK are no exception.

At least when they made TWOK, they were operating on a small budget, and the Trek films were not yet the sure thing in the box office they later prove to be. But after a while things should have evolved.

Turd Ferguson · September 15 2012, 05:33 PM

captain crow wrote:

Dream wrote:

EVERY TIME I watch Generations, I got so annoyed at the recycled footage of the BOP exploding taken from TUC.

Do you have the same problem with The Wrath of Khan since it reuses several model shots from The Motion Picture?

Fun fact: Movies 2-7 reuse at least one model shot from the movie that came before it. In fact one shot gets reused for three consecutive movies.

I don't have a problem with TWOK reusing TMP footage, because we get a badass nebula cat and mouse game involving the Enterprise and the Reliant. So, instead of new footage of the Enterprise creeping away from Earth, we get beautiful NEW footage for the finale of the Enterprise warping away from the exploding Mutara Nebula and the birth of the Genesis planet. There's a reason for this. They recycled the footage to save money and get us a kickass finale.

We get no shots like this in Generations (well, except for the D crashing on Veridian IV) All the "glory" shots of the Enterprise-D throughout the movie may as well have been recycled from TNG.

DonIago · September 15 2012, 08:41 PM

I think there's a significant difference between reusing what's essentially an establishing shot and reusing a "climax of a battle" shot.

Yes, DS9 is guilty of the same crime, but I can respect that they were operating on a TV-show budget.

Mr_Homn · September 15 2012, 08:53 PM

It honestly never really bothered me. It's a bird of prey exploding, how different is it going to look if they do it over again anyway?

I have far bigger problems with the movie's script, which was god awful, and this is the biggest problem with all of the TNG movies.

DonIago · September 15 2012, 08:59 PM

I suppose the issue is that the script issues were part of the movie, while the BOP explosion wrenched me out of the movie.

CoveTom · September 15 2012, 09:39 PM

95% of the movie-going public is not going to have any idea that the shot was recycled from TUC. And, as was observed above, a Bird of Prey exploding is not going to look that much different no matter how many different times you film it. If recycling a few shots from TUC enables them to save money and create better effects for things like the crashing of the saucer section, I'm all for it since that, and not the BoP explosion, was really the signature action moment and effects shot of the film.

All of the criticisms of the story, the ability of the BoP to defeat the Enterprise, and so forth are valid. But the re-use of previous effects shots is not the problem.

(And, BTW, if the Duras sisters have gained access to the technical information visible through Geordi's VISOR, I think they could have made it realistic for the BoP to defeat the Enterprise. I mean, they could penetrate the Enterprise's shields, thereby neutralizing it's primary defense. However, I think they should have added a line or two of dialog explaining that the first shot or two damaged the weapons systems. Thus, as in the battle with Khan in TWOK, the Enterprise is left with the ability to fire one or two shots at most, and have to make those count. Then it becomes plausible they hold their fire until Data implements his shield-dropping trick.)

Grant · September 15 2012, 10:17 PM

I am MORE bothered that a BOP destroyed the Ent-D than I am that they reused the shot. Especially since they had already created new Klingon ships by then.

But I disagree that 95% of the people didn't notice. I'll bet a lot more noticed than that.

Dream · September 15 2012, 11:03 PM

Grant wrote:

I am MORE bothered that a BOP destroyed the Ent-D than I am that they reused the shot. Especially since they had already created new Klingon ships by then.

But I disagree that 95% of the people didn't notice. I'll bet a lot more noticed than that.

I disagree about the 95% too. I'd argue Star Trek has many more fanboys than any other franchise with the exception of Star Wars.

CoveTom · September 15 2012, 11:37 PM

Dream wrote:

I disagree about the 95% too. I'd argue Star Trek has many more fanboys than any other franchise with the exception of Star Wars.

Fanboys are not who the Star Trek movies are made for, now or then. If they were the target audience, the Trek films would be very different. Even though Trek does, indeed, have a large number of fanboys, the moviegoing public consists of a much larger base of people who are either casual Star Trek fans, or not even Trek fans at all but just people looking for a good, entertaining film to go to. Those are the people the studios have always targeted. And those people don't care if you re-use a visual effects shot from a previous film.

Mr_Homn · September 15 2012, 11:39 PM

I agree with CoveTom, the vast majority of the movie going public definitely would not notice something so trivial. General audiences. Not fanboys.

Out of the maybe 10% of the audience who are hardcore trekkies, probably only about 5% of them even noticed. I didn't notice for years until I read it on Trekbbs.

Therin of Andor · September 15 2012, 11:48 PM

Mr_Homn wrote:

Out of the maybe 10% of the audience who are hardcore trekkies, probably only about 5% of them even noticed. I didn't notice for years until I read it on Trekbbs.

I notice a lot of stuff but, to me, explosions are explosions. A necessary evil to get to the next bit of a story. I'm with Mr_Homn.

billcosby · September 16 2012, 12:43 AM

It would be hilarious if they re-used it again in Trek XII!

los2188 · September 16 2012, 05:47 AM

I thought it sucked for them to re-use a shot of the bird of prey from the previous movie, but I do have this to pose... Suppose they went with an old bird of prey because the idea of "a couple of renegade Klingons" having the most up to date Klingon ship would have be unreasonable. Yes? No?

DonIago · September 16 2012, 06:00 AM

Then they're still stuck with the fact that a BoP going up against a Galaxy-class ship should be patently ridiculous.

Then again, almost everything involving the combat-as-shown was patently ridiculous.

CoveTom · September 16 2012, 07:18 AM

In "Yesterday's Enterprise," three Birds of Prey are able to mount an effective battle against the fully-powered and fully-shielded Enterprise-D, to the point where had the battle continued for about 30 more seconds, the Enterprise would have been destroyed. Why, then, is it unreasonable to think that a single Bird of Prey would be an effective match for the Enterprise if the advantage of its shields had been neutralized?

September 15 2012, 08:41 PM	#18
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations I think there's a significant difference between reusing what's essentially an establishing shot and reusing a "climax of a battle" shot. Yes, DS9 is guilty of the same crime, but I can respect that they were operating on a TV-show budget. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

September 15 2012, 08:53 PM	#19
Mr_Homn Captain	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations It honestly never really bothered me. It's a bird of prey exploding, how different is it going to look if they do it over again anyway? I have far bigger problems with the movie's script, which was god awful, and this is the biggest problem with all of the TNG movies. __________________ "Thank you.. for the drinks."

September 15 2012, 08:59 PM	#20
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations I suppose the issue is that the script issues were part of the movie, while the BOP explosion wrenched me out of the movie. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

September 15 2012, 09:39 PM	#21
CoveTom Rear Admiral Location: CoveTom	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations 95% of the movie-going public is not going to have any idea that the shot was recycled from TUC. And, as was observed above, a Bird of Prey exploding is not going to look that much different no matter how many different times you film it. If recycling a few shots from TUC enables them to save money and create better effects for things like the crashing of the saucer section, I'm all for it since that, and not the BoP explosion, was really the signature action moment and effects shot of the film. All of the criticisms of the story, the ability of the BoP to defeat the Enterprise, and so forth are valid. But the re-use of previous effects shots is not the problem. (And, BTW, if the Duras sisters have gained access to the technical information visible through Geordi's VISOR, I think they could have made it realistic for the BoP to defeat the Enterprise. I mean, they could penetrate the Enterprise's shields, thereby neutralizing it's primary defense. However, I think they should have added a line or two of dialog explaining that the first shot or two damaged the weapons systems. Thus, as in the battle with Khan in TWOK, the Enterprise is left with the ability to fire one or two shots at most, and have to make those count. Then it becomes plausible they hold their fire until Data implements his shield-dropping trick.)

September 15 2012, 10:17 PM	#22
Grant Fleet Captain	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations I am MORE bothered that a BOP destroyed the Ent-D than I am that they reused the shot. Especially since they had already created new Klingon ships by then. But I disagree that 95% of the people didn't notice. I'll bet a lot more noticed than that.

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

September 15 2012, 11:39 PM	#25
Mr_Homn Captain	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations I agree with CoveTom, the vast majority of the movie going public definitely would not notice something so trivial. General audiences. Not fanboys. Out of the maybe 10% of the audience who are hardcore trekkies, probably only about 5% of them even noticed. I didn't notice for years until I read it on Trekbbs. __________________ "Thank you.. for the drinks."

September 16 2012, 12:43 AM	#27
billcosby Commodore Location: billcosby	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations It would be hilarious if they re-used it again in Trek XII! __________________ My 1st Edition TrekCCG virtual expansion: http://billcosbytrekccg.blogspot.com/

September 16 2012, 05:47 AM	#28
los2188 Commander Location: North Carolina	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations I thought it sucked for them to re-use a shot of the bird of prey from the previous movie, but I do have this to pose... Suppose they went with an old bird of prey because the idea of "a couple of renegade Klingons" having the most up to date Klingon ship would have be unreasonable. Yes? No? __________________ Darling, you remain as aesthetically pleasing as the first day we met. I believe I am the most fortunate sentient in this sector of the galaxy.

September 16 2012, 06:00 AM	#29
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations Then they're still stuck with the fact that a BoP going up against a Galaxy-class ship should be patently ridiculous. Then again, almost everything involving the combat-as-shown was patently ridiculous. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

September 16 2012, 07:18 AM	#30
CoveTom Rear Admiral Location: CoveTom	Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations In "Yesterday's Enterprise," three Birds of Prey are able to mount an effective battle against the fully-powered and fully-shielded Enterprise-D, to the point where had the battle continued for about 30 more seconds, the Enterprise would have been destroyed. Why, then, is it unreasonable to think that a single Bird of Prey would be an effective match for the Enterprise if the advantage of its shields had been neutralized?