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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old September 11 2012, 04:25 AM   #331
Mott the barber
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
Mott the barber wrote: View Post
This may be a dumb question, but if I only have two speakers and I set to the 7.1 instead of the stereo, will I be loosing so much of the sound on the 7.1 that it's worth it for me to just keep it on the overall lower quality stereo mix?
In my opinion, no. The bitrate of the DD 2.0 track is only 192kbps. The HDMI handshake with your TV (I'm assuming you're connected via HDMI to a TV with two speakers) tells the Blu-ray player's decoder to take the 7.1 DTS-HD MA track and output stereo LPCM (i.e. uncompressed) when the TV's EDID (Extended display identification data) shows it to have a 2-channel audio sink profile.

So, to boil it down... it's best to choose the highest quality audio available and let the player decide how to handle it based on what it's connected to.
Thanks Max. I didn't realize the hdmi would automatically decode what speaker setup I have. I have exactly what you described.
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Old September 11 2012, 05:21 PM   #332
BritishSeaPower
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

I was just about to ask if anyone had gotten their discs yet. I did mine fairly early, but didn't hear a thing back from them. So I guess I should expect them soonish.

I also sent the same e-mail address an additional e-mail telling them about audio problems I encountered on discs 6 and 7. Have not heard a word about that. I wish they were a bit better about telling us when to expect this stuff. This is like the time I ordered a whole bunch of comics off e-bay, forgot about them, then 6 months later they arrived on a rainsoaked night with no indication of why they had taken 6 months!
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Old September 11 2012, 07:35 PM   #333
FrontierTrek
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

BritishSeaPower wrote: View Post
I was just about to ask if anyone had gotten their discs yet. I did mine fairly early, but didn't hear a thing back from them. So I guess I should expect them soonish.

I also sent the same e-mail address an additional e-mail telling them about audio problems I encountered on discs 6 and 7. Have not heard a word about that. I wish they were a bit better about telling us when to expect this stuff. This is like the time I ordered a whole bunch of comics off e-bay, forgot about them, then 6 months later they arrived on a rainsoaked night with no indication of why they had taken 6 months!
There was no Disc 7...
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Old September 11 2012, 09:57 PM   #334
Scotty
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

Finally received my replacement Blu Ray set from Amazon UK. It took them awhile, but with this kind of service I'm not complaining.
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Old September 12 2012, 12:18 AM   #335
tomswift2002
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

Mott the barber wrote: View Post
Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
Mott the barber wrote: View Post
This may be a dumb question, but if I only have two speakers and I set to the 7.1 instead of the stereo, will I be loosing so much of the sound on the 7.1 that it's worth it for me to just keep it on the overall lower quality stereo mix?
In my opinion, no. The bitrate of the DD 2.0 track is only 192kbps. The HDMI handshake with your TV (I'm assuming you're connected via HDMI to a TV with two speakers) tells the Blu-ray player's decoder to take the 7.1 DTS-HD MA track and output stereo LPCM (i.e. uncompressed) when the TV's EDID (Extended display identification data) shows it to have a 2-channel audio sink profile.

So, to boil it down... it's best to choose the highest quality audio available and let the player decide how to handle it based on what it's connected to.
Thanks Max. I didn't realize the hdmi would automatically decode what speaker setup I have. I have exactly what you described.

Actually you will have audio problems because, and it doesn't matter what the bit rate is, the audio in a 7.1 mix has not been mixed properly for a 2.0 stereo playback. One thing too remember with 5.1 or 7.1 or higher is that each channel is a mono channel (even stereo is 2 synchronized mono channels), so unlike a 2.0 mix, when your Blu-ray/DVD player is downconverting to 2.0 you will loose any pans and sweeps across the sound field, unless they are on the original front left and front right channel. Even voices may appear to be not fully there because the player is trying to do its own mix into the two front channels from the other 3 or 5 channels.
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Old September 12 2012, 01:50 AM   #336
BritishSeaPower
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

FrontierTrek wrote: View Post
BritishSeaPower wrote: View Post
I was just about to ask if anyone had gotten their discs yet. I did mine fairly early, but didn't hear a thing back from them. So I guess I should expect them soonish.

I also sent the same e-mail address an additional e-mail telling them about audio problems I encountered on discs 6 and 7. Have not heard a word about that. I wish they were a bit better about telling us when to expect this stuff. This is like the time I ordered a whole bunch of comics off e-bay, forgot about them, then 6 months later they arrived on a rainsoaked night with no indication of why they had taken 6 months!
There was no Disc 7...
Whoops.... I meant 5 and 6. Confusing my SD TNG DVDs with HD TNG BRDs.
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Old September 12 2012, 02:33 AM   #337
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Mott the barber wrote: View Post
Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post

In my opinion, no. The bitrate of the DD 2.0 track is only 192kbps. The HDMI handshake with your TV (I'm assuming you're connected via HDMI to a TV with two speakers) tells the Blu-ray player's decoder to take the 7.1 DTS-HD MA track and output stereo LPCM (i.e. uncompressed) when the TV's EDID (Extended display identification data) shows it to have a 2-channel audio sink profile.

So, to boil it down... it's best to choose the highest quality audio available and let the player decide how to handle it based on what it's connected to.
Thanks Max. I didn't realize the hdmi would automatically decode what speaker setup I have. I have exactly what you described.

Actually you will have audio problems because, and it doesn't matter what the bit rate is, the audio in a 7.1 mix has not been mixed properly for a 2.0 stereo playback.
I've not heard any problems thus far (now that the 7.1 audio channel mapping has been corrected). I sometimes watch an episode in my kitchen in PCM 2.0 via an HDMI switcher connected to my Blu-ray player in my main viewing room which splits the signal.

In fact, the exact parameters for the downmix are set by the person encoding the audio in the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite software -- so it has been mixed properly for 2.0. The Blu-ray player just blindly follows those parameters. You can read more about it in the manual here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17630423/43/Downmix-to-2-0
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Old September 13 2012, 04:04 PM   #338
tomswift2002
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

Maxwell Everret wrote:

I've not heard any problems thus far (now that the 7.1 audio channel mapping has been corrected). I sometimes watch an episode in my kitchen in PCM 2.0 via an HDMI switcher connected to my Blu-ray player in my main viewing room which splits the signal.

In fact, the exact parameters for the downmix are set by the person encoding the audio in the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite software -- so it has been mixed properly for 2.0. The Blu-ray player just blindly follows those parameters. You can read more about it in the manual here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17630423/43/Downmix-to-2-0
I've mixed multi-channel audio in the past, and I have not heard of that, and I just looked at that document. No where does it say that in the same stream you can do both a multi- and stereo-channel mix. It does mention sub-channels, but so far those haven't been standardized for Blu-Ray.

But listening to a 2.0 PCM downmix of a multi-channel source on a consumer Blu-Ray or DVD player is just like listening to that source via analog RCA jacks.

You will loose information because the machine will not mix the audio as a human would mix it for true stereo.
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Old September 13 2012, 11:37 PM   #339
Maxwell Everett
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Maxwell Everret wrote:

I've not heard any problems thus far (now that the 7.1 audio channel mapping has been corrected). I sometimes watch an episode in my kitchen in PCM 2.0 via an HDMI switcher connected to my Blu-ray player in my main viewing room which splits the signal.

In fact, the exact parameters for the downmix are set by the person encoding the audio in the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite software -- so it has been mixed properly for 2.0. The Blu-ray player just blindly follows those parameters. You can read more about it in the manual here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17630423/43/Downmix-to-2-0
I've mixed multi-channel audio in the past, and I have not heard of that, and I just looked at that document. No where does it say that in the same stream you can do both a multi- and stereo-channel mix. It does mention sub-channels, but so far those haven't been standardized for Blu-Ray.

But listening to a 2.0 PCM downmix of a multi-channel source on a consumer Blu-Ray or DVD player is just like listening to that source via analog RCA jacks.

You will loose information because the machine will not mix the audio as a human would mix it for true stereo.
Again, a human being (not a machine) sets the parameters for the eventual downmix... that metadata is read by the player and it sends the predetermined 2.0 downmix to the TV. To quote the manual:

"The Downmix to Stereo section of this panel allows the user to specify the appropriate parameters for the downmix as shown in Figure 7-18 ... The values specified for the L, R, C, LFE, Ls and Rs denote their respective contributions to the output mix for the Left and Right stereo channels."
The quality of the audio sent over analog RCA jacks depends, of course, on the quality of the digital-to-analog converter in the player. I agree that it certainly can sound just as good over analog cables... but then again, I never said it couldn't.
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Old September 14 2012, 12:54 AM   #340
dg1379
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

Anyone in the Cleveland area get replacements yet? I called way back when they first started the recall and have yet to recieve anything.
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Old September 14 2012, 01:25 AM   #341
NewHorizon
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

I'm still waiting on the East Coast of Canada. They must have sent the discs by carrier pigeon.

I am not counting on ever getting the discs from deluxe at this point, so for the past week I've been tussling with Amazon.com to get them to exchange my set.

See, a few weeks back..before the new disc sets were confirmed to be on the shelves, I contacted Amazon to see when they would be getting them. An overzealous service rep said that he would exchange my defective discs for a fixed set...I was surprised to hear they already had them, so I asked if he was absolutely sure about this. He said they were absolutely a working set. Sadly, I don't think the guy really knew anything about the issue and thought I just had a botched disc set so he sent me the exact same set I already had.

I returned it immediately and when the new sets were finally on the shelves, I got back in touch to get the real fixed set and they refused, saying I already exchanged the set...even though I explained it was their reps fault for sending me the wrong set.

So, I just kept hammering away at them until they finally relented last night. lol

I should have the real set by Tuesday. Fingers crossed it really is the fixed set. They don't seem terribly competent.

I saved twenty dollars buying from Amazon, but with all the hassle they've given me...I am going to buy Season Two at the local Future Shop up the street. It's more money, but at least if something goes wrong I can just walk in and exchange it with no hassles.
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Old September 14 2012, 05:32 AM   #342
Brikar99
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

BritishSeaPower wrote: View Post
FrontierTrek wrote: View Post
BritishSeaPower wrote: View Post
I was just about to ask if anyone had gotten their discs yet. I did mine fairly early, but didn't hear a thing back from them. So I guess I should expect them soonish.

I also sent the same e-mail address an additional e-mail telling them about audio problems I encountered on discs 6 and 7. Have not heard a word about that. I wish they were a bit better about telling us when to expect this stuff. This is like the time I ordered a whole bunch of comics off e-bay, forgot about them, then 6 months later they arrived on a rainsoaked night with no indication of why they had taken 6 months!
There was no Disc 7...
Whoops.... I meant 5 and 6. Confusing my SD TNG DVDs with HD TNG BRDs.
"THERE ARE FOUR LIGH--- erm, SIX DISCS!!"
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Old September 14 2012, 11:56 AM   #343
Falcor5
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

dg1379 wrote: View Post
Anyone in the Cleveland area get replacements yet? I called way back when they first started the recall and have yet to recieve anything.
Not in Cleveland but I too am still waiting for my discs. I am on the East Coast.
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Old September 14 2012, 07:22 PM   #344
Kryten
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
I got my set changed at HMV in-store without any problem.
Can anyone with a full replacement set please confirm if the packaging is different? I was expecting an additional delta logo on the spine but the set from HMV is exactly the same as the dodgy set. I think I've been sent another duff copy! I've noticed a forum post elsewhere of someone who has had the same thing happen.

Not going to open it and will attempt a replacement in a shop tomorrow... Not sure how they'll take that as I bought online though.
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Old September 14 2012, 07:45 PM   #345
NewHorizon
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Generation Blu-ray Audio Issues

Kryten wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
I got my set changed at HMV in-store without any problem.
Can anyone with a full replacement set please confirm if the packaging is different? I was expecting an additional delta logo on the spine but the set from HMV is exactly the same as the dodgy set. I think I've been sent another duff copy! I've noticed a forum post elsewhere of someone who has had the same thing happen.

Not going to open it and will attempt a replacement in a shop tomorrow... Not sure how they'll take that as I bought online though.
They're supposed to look like this.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
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