RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,228
Posts: 5,405,716
Members: 24,761
Currently online: 519
Newest member: beakel001

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 12 2012, 11:05 PM   #46
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Hando wrote: View Post
the episode clearly shows that they have a skewed view of Voyager. And they needed the Doctor to correct them.
By the time the episode was over, they WERE corrected. They no longer had that skewed concept of Voyager as a warship. That was the Doctor's doing.

Also, the Doctor would not need to start a long track home, he could just call the nearest outpost or ship and get a lift to Earth.
We don't know how long it would take for the Doctor to reach Federation space. Assuming this planet is not a member of the Federation, he might have had to do a bit of searching for the nearest Federation world. Still, that might not have been too far away.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 01:03 AM   #47
Hando
Lieutenant Commander
 
Hando's Avatar
 
Send a message via ICQ to Hando Send a message via AIM to Hando Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Hando Send a message via Yahoo to Hando
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

^Right. So, I don't understand your earlier post, if you knew this.
Hando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 10:13 AM   #48
Deks
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

[QUOTE=T'Girl;6930205]
Deks wrote: View Post
I take it you're referring to Nicole, Admiral Paris's assistant (or secretary), you honestly think a Starfleet Admiral isn't going to have a staff? Nicole likely managed the Admiral appointments and kept him on schedule.
Which is utterly idiotic given that a computer (a Trek one no less) can do that orders of magnitude better.

Roddenberry was the one who gave both Captain Pike and Kirk a yeoman, a yeoman is basically a secretary.

But you were saying.

A yeoman still served on board a star-ship and had numerous other duties who probably had a temporary assignment as a yeoman.
Besides, everyone who serves under a captain is a personal 'secretary' of sorts, or people who get things done for them.

On a star-ship, you can get away with it partly (even though its unnecessary and contradicts numerous things)... for a planet bound setting, especially in the late 24th century... its just downright stupid (we can do away with such stupidities TODAY with our automation capabilities, let alone Trek).


We don't know how long it would take for the Doctor to reach Federation space. Assuming this planet is not a member of the Federation, he might have had to do a bit of searching for the nearest Federation world. Still, that might not have been too far away.
It was mentioned that the Doctor attempted to trace Voyager's path.
However that still doesn't negate the premise that he might be able to stumble upon a star-fleet vessel or an outpost.
Besides, warp travel would likely advance to the point where it wouldn't be an issue even for the Doctor to reach Earth in less than a day or so (but it wouldn't surprise me that this particular planets technology was in stagnation - seeing how tensions were 'on the rise' for 700 years - and for a technologically advanced species no less).
__________________
We are who we choose to be but also have predefined aspects of our personalities we are born with, and make art that defines us.
Deks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 07:19 PM   #49
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Having served as a receptionist and staff assistant myself, I'm curious about what's so "stupid" about the idea. Or, for that matter, how a computer could be expected to keep an office running while the principals are preoccupied.

Having assistants is not a sign of a repressive economy or ideology. Disrespecting assistants and not providing good compensation for their services is a sign of a repressive economy or ideology.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 09:20 PM   #50
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

26th century - the battle of Procyon 5.
Daniels tells Archer directly that the 26th century federation consists of "dozens of species". The statement puts certain limits on the number of member species in the federation - a few hundreds, at most.

Well - the federation contains a few 'dozens of species' (hundreds of species) by the 24th century, as well.
Sounds as if a long period of isolationism - or, at least, limited to non-existent inclusion into the federation of new members - is coming for the federation.

Considering that the, BY FAR, largest, most radical changes for the federation resulting from recent exploration were the dominion war and the borg invasion (both of these antagonists, relatively newly discovered)...well, the loss/gain results of exploration don't look good at all.

PS
BTW, Sci, it's not exactly enlightened to put the equal sign between stupidity/irrationality and opinions you don't agree to (mostly, due to feel-good sayings).
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton

Last edited by Edit_XYZ; September 13 2012 at 09:46 PM.
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 09:48 PM   #51
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
26th century - the battle of Procyon 5.
Daniels tells Archer directly that the 26th century federation consists of "dozens of species". The statement puts certain limits on the number of member species in the federation - a few hundreds, at most.

Well - the federation contains a few 'dozens of species' (hundreds of species) by the 24th century, as well.
Sounds as if a long period of isolationism - or, at least, limited to non-existent inclusion into the federation of new members - is coming for the federation.
Then again, the 26th-century timeline that we saw, will not happen. The destruction of the Sphere Builders and the Expanse in ENT (the Expanse covered a quarter of the galaxy in that 26th-century scene) prevented that. Whatever form the 'real' 26th century takes in Trek, it will not be like that. The Enterprise-J might even be different.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 09:58 PM   #52
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

A version of that 26th century will happen. A pretty close one, as the scarce on-screen evidence indicates:
Daniels had no problem with Archer destroying the spheres - which he should have, he being into preserving the timeline; except if the change was of little consequence or at least surgically limited - at least for the federation.
Daniels was not in the least affected by the change.
As a general principle, it's constructive to interpret on-screen events in the way in which they have an effect, the alternative being baseless feel-good speculation.
etc

One can go further, to the 28th century and that federation's 'guilty until proven innocent' policy.
The isolationist policy of the previous centuries - becoming an extremist, 'for the fatherland' loss of liberty in the name of security?

Apparently, the wounds from the borg invasion left some pretty ugly scars on the federation.
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 10:07 PM   #53
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
A version of that 26th century will happen. A pretty close one
Uh, no.

Remember, the Expanse was destroyed in "Zero Hour." That happened in the 22nd century.

The 26th-century scenes in "Azati Prime" took place in a timeline where the Expanse covers 1/4 of the galaxy. This timeline, logically, can never happen now, because the Expanse has been destroyed.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 10:10 PM   #54
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

As said:
A version of that 26th century will happen. A pretty close one (for the federation, NOT necessarily for the rest of the galaxy - outside Daniels' jurisdiction), as the scarce on-screen evidence indicates:
Daniels had no problem with Archer destroying the spheres - which he should have, he being into preserving the timeline; except if the change was of little consequence or at least surgically limited - at least for the federation.
Daniels was not in the least affected by the change.

As a general principle, it's constructive to interpret on-screen events in the way in which they have an effect, the alternative being baseless feel-good speculation.

PS - talking about 'zero hour' - Daniels reiterates 'dozens, eventually hundreds of species'. And he was pretty adamant about Archer's specific role in federation history.
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 10:13 PM   #55
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

The loss of the Expanse will certainly have repercussions we can't even begin to imagine. The fact that in the alternative 26th century, it covers 1/4 of the galaxy, surely affected every aspect of life (both in and out of the Federation). The fact that the last 400 years have been erased from history is going to wipe the slate clean, as it were. Whatever the Federation is like in that version of the 26th century, the fact that the Expanse essentially never existed is going to result in a whole new version of events.

The reason why Daniels took Archer to see that version of the future is to show him what would happen if he failed to act. Daniels had to make sure Archer WOULD act - to ensure that this version of the future never happened. Which, as we know now, it won't.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 10:20 PM   #56
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

The loss of the Expanse will certainly have repercussions we can't even begin to imagine
Daniels can 'imagine' the repercussions just fine.

The reason why Daniels took Archer to see that version of the future is to show him what would happen if he failed to act.
Almost certainly NOT the scenarists' intent; if that was the scenarists'/Daniels' intent, they gave absolutely no sign of it. Plus, humanity wold be extinct in an 'Archer failed to act' timeline.
More in line with what was shown - Archer changed history, but not in any significant way for the federation.
Daniels was aware and had no problem with the change.

AND - Talking about 'zero hour' - Daniels reiterates 'dozens, eventually hundreds of species'. And he was pretty adamant about Archer's specific role in federation history.
Hundreds of species remains the norm. Meaning, by the 24th century, the federation maxes out
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 10:26 PM   #57
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

It's simple logic, really. You take away something as significant as the Expanse, and history will proceed very differently. There's simply no way that the real 26th century *could* be the same as we saw it there.

It would be like going back to 17th-century Earth and destroying Europe. How similar do you think life would be today, if that had happened?
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 10:29 PM   #58
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

"It's simple logic, really."
Actually, it's a 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil'. Comparing Earth's real world history with fictional galaxy's (which is...significantly larger) future history is a straw-man.
Even within the confines of this imperfect comparison, life would be pretty much the same for an amazonian tribe.

Star trek contains enough developments just as far fetched - and few of them have the credentials of a time traveler that is in the know.
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 10:35 PM   #59
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

As for the size of the Federation: Daniels' line leaves a lot of room. There are, AFAIK, about 150 members of the Federation in TOS' time. Four hundred years after that, I'm sure there could be a lot more. If the Federation jumped to over 900 members by that time, it would still fit with what Daniels said. Daniels said "hundreds", but even if taken literally, any upper bound that establishes will still allow the Federation to grow, grow, and keep growing.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 10:40 PM   #60
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Danield said twice (in Azati prime and Zero hour) 'dozens of species'.
900 kind of jumpes the shark of 'dozens of species'.

Let's say 300 - if Daniels was REALLY into underestimation, let's say 500 species.

Not enough for constant growth at 23-24th century levels until the 31s century.
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:44 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.