I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

[BruntFCA]

Enterprise kind of had to fail to be as good as it eventually was. If the show had been successful from the start we would of kept getting the same lazy sub par show that we got for the first 2 seasons but because the show was tanking it lit a fire under TPTBs ass which led to a better show that was unfortunately too late.

I'd take the seasons 3 & 4 we got over another 5 like the the first 2 anyday.

[teacake]

kythe wrote:

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Well, I had nothing better to do this week so I finally made it through the last season! Season 4 improved dramatically, its what the series should have been all along. There were several great story arcs that tied in the Humans, Vulcan, Andorians, and Tellerites, the founding members of the Federation. This was true prequel material. Now I'm sorry the series ended early, it felt premature.

I think season 4 is some of the best Trek ever.

Speaking of endings though (and because I like complaining ), that last episode really sucked. They killed Trip in a rediculous, out of character way, and nothing came of it. There was no funeral, no grief or aftermath, he was just thrown away. Shran was out of character too, he's not the type to be engaging in shady business. And after all the fuss, they didn't show Archer's speech. The last episode really didn't wrap up anything and it didn't do any of the characters justice.

I consider the last episode the worst piece of shit ever.

And so do a lot of other people, in case you didn't notice yet. Just have a look for TATV threads, they are full of bile

[Sindatur]

kythe wrote:

---

Well, I had nothing better to do this week so I finally made it through the last season! Season 4 improved dramatically, its what the series should have been all along. There were several great story arcs that tied in the Humans, Vulcan, Andorians, and Tellerites, the founding members of the Federation. This was true prequel material. Now I'm sorry the series ended early, it felt premature.

Speaking of endings though (and because I like complaining ), that last episode really sucked. They killed Trip in a rediculous, out of character way, and nothing came of it. There was no funeral, no grief or aftermath, he was just thrown away. Shran was out of character too, he's not the type to be engaging in shady business. And after all the fuss, they didn't show Archer's speech. The last episode really didn't wrap up anything and it didn't do any of the characters justice.

But overall season 4 was the best Enterprise had to offer.

Yea, most of us have De-Canonized that supposed "Valentine to the Fans" and instead accept the Peter Weller episodes as the true finale.

[Methos]

Well Trip's 'death' was actually supposed to be explained in Season 5 in more detail... along with in the books The Good That Men Do and Beneath the Raptor's Wing...

For reasons that remained classified for (approximately) 250 years, Tucker was forced to fake his own death in 2155, days before the foundation of the Coalition of Planets, precursor to the United Federation of Planets.

In files de-classified in the early 25th century, it was revealed that Tucker had been recruited by the rogue spy agency known to some as Section 31 to infiltrate the space of the Romulan Star Empire and sabotage the Romulans' research into developing a Warp-7 stardrive.

Tucker returned to Romulan space shortly after the formation of the Coalition of Planets in order to gather intelligence on the Romulans before the inevitable war with the Empire broke out. At some point the historical record was altered, changing the date of Tucker's "death" from 2155 to 2161.

Tucker survived under the assumed name of Michael Kenmore, and had several cosmetic alterations done to his face to ensure his anonymity. He moved with T'Pol to Vulcan, and eventually became the father of her two children: T'Mir and Lorian, named after his son from an alternate reality. This was not common knowlege, however, and most people believed they were the result of her reconciliation with Koss years later. He lived with them in T'Pol's ancestral home, but posed as her gardener.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/To_Brave_the_Storm

M

[Delta Vega]

Spanky wrote:

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Seven million people dead, threat of the entire species dying, only one Earth ship capable of reaching/searching/investigating the threat, a couple billion people expecting to be saved, an unknown enemy.

I think Archer and by extent the crew are allowed their moments of madness that can descend into depravity.

I think you beat me to that.

[teacake]

Methos wrote:

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Well Trip's 'death' was actually supposed to be explained in Season 5 in more detail... along with in the books The Good That Men Do and Beneath the Raptor's Wing...

For reasons that remained classified for (approximately) 250 years, Tucker was forced to fake his own death in 2155, days before the foundation of the Coalition of Planets, precursor to the United Federation of Planets.

In files de-classified in the early 25th century, it was revealed that Tucker had been recruited by the rogue spy agency known to some as Section 31 to infiltrate the space of the Romulan Star Empire and sabotage the Romulans' research into developing a Warp-7 stardrive.

Tucker returned to Romulan space shortly after the formation of the Coalition of Planets in order to gather intelligence on the Romulans before the inevitable war with the Empire broke out. At some point the historical record was altered, changing the date of Tucker's "death" from 2155 to 2161.

Tucker survived under the assumed name of Michael Kenmore, and had several cosmetic alterations done to his face to ensure his anonymity. He moved with T'Pol to Vulcan, and eventually became the father of her two children: T'Mir and Lorian, named after his son from an alternate reality. This was not common knowlege, however, and most people believed they were the result of her reconciliation with Koss years later. He lived with them in T'Pol's ancestral home, but posed as her gardener.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/To_Brave_the_Storm

WAIT.

The book events were supposed to be referenced/occur in SEASON 5!!!!!

I never heard this, I'm ... speechless. Sorta.

[R. Star]

That's the first I've heard of that. Sounds like a fan rumor almost.

[King Daniel]

It was said in an interview somewhere that Trip's death would have been undone somehow had a fifth season been granted. But it probably wouldn't have involved Old Jake and Old Nog uncovering a 200 year old Section 31 coverup, or whatever The Good That Men Do was supposed to be about.

Plus, they knew the show was doomed before they made "These Are the Voyages", so I think the whole thing's moot.

[teacake]

But they "would have" undone it. If it wasn't moot.

[Sindatur]

teacake wrote:

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But they "would have" undone it. If it wasn't moot.

I always assumed if there was a Season 5, TATV wouldn't have existed, or wouldn't have caused the event, so it wouldn't need to be undone

[Skywalker]

No, TATV was always meant to be the Season Four finale. If they'd somehow managed a Season Five, TATV still would have happened, they just would have done something to get around Trip's death.

Remember that they never actually showed his body. If they'd gotten the renewal notice in time, they could have rewritten some dialogue to make his status even more ambiguous before revealing he was alive in the Season Five premiere.

[BruntFCA]

Skywalker wrote:

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No, TATV was always meant to be the Season Four finale. If they'd somehow managed a Season Five, TATV still would have happened, they just would have done something to get around Trip's death.

Remember that they never actually showed his body. If they'd gotten the renewal notice in time, they could have rewritten some dialogue to make his status even more ambiguous before revealing he was alive in the Season Five premiere.

I don't think this is true, from what I recall everyone found out while filming "In a Mirror Darkly" that the show was cancelled so Berman who had left the show to Manny Coto at that point came back to do TATV which was supposed to be a kind of book end to the modern era of Trek on TV. Coto's original plan for the end of season four was to have the Terra Prime episodes be a three parter. So TATV was written after the show had been cancelled. Berman did say later that if the show had made it to season 5 that Trip would not have been killed off and that his death in TATV was basically a ploy to add drama.

[teacake]

Skywalker wrote:

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No, TATV was always meant to be the Season Four finale. If they'd somehow managed a Season Five, TATV still would have happened, they just would have done something to get around Trip's death.

Remember that they never actually showed his body. If they'd gotten the renewal notice in time, they could have rewritten some dialogue to make his status even more ambiguous before revealing he was alive in the Season Five premiere.

As he's going into the fixing chamber Phlox and Archer exchange an odd look, it always seemed to me that it indicated the plan was now in motion. The plan being whatever reason they are faking his death.

[V]

Season 3 was the show's lowest ebb.

Actually, I think season 2 was...due to simply being boring and recycled.

Season 3 was embarrassing because it was....they admitted the show wasn't working and needed to be rebooted, but couldn't reboot it well. So it was watching Berman and Braga desperately trying to be "cool" and "edgy", which arguably was actually WORSE than if they'd just stuck to being boring and predictable. It reeked of "desperation".

If you hate season 3, please just skip ahead to season 4, when they booked Berman and Braga out of the writers' room and hired on some Trek book writers.

It couldn't completely undo three years of failure, but it served two purposes:

1 - When Berman and Braga were fired, I remember them *actually pouting* in interviews that "a prequel idea is just hard to do" -- blaming the concept itself. But Season 4 demonstrated that when other writers were in charge, handling it well, it wasn't the concept's fault; it was Berman and Braga.

2 - Ironically...the first three seasons weren't really much of a prequel. And no, a prequel doesn't need to be continuity-heavy. Instead the first three seasons were boring and not really Trek-centric, with occasionally a VERY obscure reference to classic Trek that even fans would have to look up. Meeting the Tellarites? Good idea. Making an utterly obscure reference to the Tellarites in a throwaway line of Technobabble? Bad idea. ****But season 4's new writers, Coto and the Reeves-Stevenses, actually tried to make a "Birth of the Federation" season story which was quite enjoyable.

[Dream]

ANIS pretty much killed all the interest I had in ENT.

Also it didn't help that I didn't even think Archer was a decent captain in the first place.