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Old September 13 2012, 02:33 AM   #76
Blamo
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

The Wonder Woman animated movie failed for quite a few reasons.

For starters, she isn't Batman or Superman. Both Superman and Batman are widely popular and well known, having had numerous animated TV shows, video games, recent liveaction TV shows and movies. To be frank the concept of a DC trinity is a joke, being more like the DC duo.

Then there's Wonder Womans outfit, which at best looks like she's wearing a swimsuit to a 1960's playboy swimsuit competition. When they deigned to give her pants and make her look a bit more up to date, comic fans foamed at the mouth.

Speaking of male comic fandom, lets face it not a small proportion of them have issues seeing ladies as anything other then sex objects (but then same goes for geeks/nerds), some even being openly misogynistic. Not all of them, probably not even close to a quarter of them, but enough. At least that's my feeling based on comments I've read on comic websites.

Finally there's the concept of the character herself which seems to take two forms. Domination fantasies of strong women dominating men (and in some cases men dominating strong women) and a very bad parody of a straw feminist. The character herself is uninteresting and bland to the point of making Superman look exciting as a character. Batgirl, Zatanna, Barbara Gordon as Oracle (heck she'd make a better member of the trinity then Wonder Woman) and Supergirl would have been better stars of their own movies.

Basically the animated movie was doomed to fail from the very beginning.

-------------

Regarding superheroine movies as a whole, I suspect a large portion of the problem comes down to how they're written and designed. With a female superheroine they tend to go overboard in one way or the other, whether that's sticking her in a stipperific outfit and/or feeling like they have to make a feminist statement with it. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just that they do whack it over your head with a blunt instrument in a way Buffy didn't. Also there's a lack of focus on the character herself, unlike in superhero movies (especially recent ones) that focus on the characters inner turmoil and problems etc.
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Old September 13 2012, 03:46 AM   #77
Mr. Adventure
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

Christopher wrote: View Post
^That's true, although I'd hardly count Lara Croft as a superhero.

Part of the problem is that there are so few female-led superhero movies that there simply isn't a large enough sample size to base any statistically meaningful analyses on. So the real question that needs to be asked isn't "What's wrong with female-led superhero movies?" but "Why are there still so few of them?" I mean, we've had strong female action heroes for decades now, from Ripley and Sarah Connor to Evelyn Salt and the leads of the Underworld and Resident Evil franchises. So obviously action movies with female leads can succeed. Which makes the lack of such movies in the superhero subgenre in particular something of an anomaly.
I think what those movies show is that people will see films with female leads if there's solid material behind them. The original Wonder Woman series, Xena, Bionic Woman series mentioned also seem to support this.

We can argue the whys but the female superhero films have been rather subpar for whatever reason. The films so far just haven't really deserved a bigger audience.
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Old September 13 2012, 04:12 AM   #78
JD
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

Blamo wrote: View Post
The Wonder Woman animated movie failed for quite a few reasons.
Except it didn't actually fail. I posted a link to the sales numbers earlier in the thread, and it was actually one of the better selling DC Animated movies.
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Old September 13 2012, 05:33 AM   #79
Captain Atkin
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

Christopher wrote: View Post
Captain Atkin wrote: View Post
I'm not cherry-picking from what you said. Just pointing out the fact that male characters are not that memorable in these films.
You just did it again! I've said over and over again that the male characters were no more or less memorable to me that the female ones! But you're completely ignoring the part that you don't want to hear and only acknowledging the part that supposedly confirms your preconceptions. That is the very definition of cherry-picking!


Of course, I could just be going senile with old age... lol... but for the life of me I can't remember a single name of any male character in any of those films, beyond Jimmy Olsen.
See, the very way you're defining the issue forces your desired conclusion. The question that matters is, can you remember the names of any of the supporting female characters either? It is absolutely meaningless to say you can't remember the men's names unless you can show that the female characters are more memorable.
I guess the difference here between us is that I do remember most of the female characters names from the super-heroine films, whereas you don't. I have no problem remembering Lucy Lane being Supergirl's roommate, or Selena being the villain in that film, but I could never remember Peter O'Toole's character's name. I definietly cannot remember the boring love interest's name (I think he was the gardener.. lol). Female characters are easier to remember for me, since they tend to be sidekicks of sorts (although usually not the costumed variety). The men tend to be just eye-candy, 2 dimensional bad-guys, or father figures.

----------------

In response to the Wonder-Woman animated movie: I own it, and I love it. That is Wonder-Woman done right, and Steve Trevor is portrayed great in that film. I really feel the animated film has something for everyone. Although it wasn't a huge financial success, it didn't loose any money. It would be cool to see a sequel to that one someday.
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Old September 13 2012, 01:40 PM   #80
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

Captain Atkin wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Captain Atkin wrote: View Post
I'm not cherry-picking from what you said. Just pointing out the fact that male characters are not that memorable in these films.
You just did it again! I've said over and over again that the male characters were no more or less memorable to me that the female ones! But you're completely ignoring the part that you don't want to hear and only acknowledging the part that supposedly confirms your preconceptions. That is the very definition of cherry-picking!


Of course, I could just be going senile with old age... lol... but for the life of me I can't remember a single name of any male character in any of those films, beyond Jimmy Olsen.
See, the very way you're defining the issue forces your desired conclusion. The question that matters is, can you remember the names of any of the supporting female characters either? It is absolutely meaningless to say you can't remember the men's names unless you can show that the female characters are more memorable.
I guess the difference here between us is that I do remember most of the female characters names from the super-heroine films, whereas you don't. I have no problem remembering Lucy Lane being Supergirl's roommate, or Selena being the villain in that film, but I could never remember Peter O'Toole's character's name. I definietly cannot remember the boring love interest's name (I think he was the gardener.. lol). Female characters are easier to remember for me, since they tend to be sidekicks of sorts (although usually not the costumed variety). The men tend to be just eye-candy, 2 dimensional bad-guys, or father figures.

----------------

In response to the Wonder-Woman animated movie: I own it, and I love it. That is Wonder-Woman done right, and Steve Trevor is portrayed great in that film. I really feel the animated film has something for everyone. Although it wasn't a huge financial success, it didn't loose any money. It would be cool to see a sequel to that one someday.
The gardener doesn't do much, he is basically just bait for supergirl, but to be fair, he's just an ordinary person or a love interest, its hard to be anything else but that in a superhero movie when one doesn't have superpowers. So just being the Devil's advocate, what else can he do besides get rescued by Supergirl?

Lois Lane usually has a nose for trouble and getting herself in situations where she needs to be rescued by Superman, what other role can she possibly play? Well she is an investigator, she investigates bad guys and is usually a better sleuth than Superman, so it stands to reason that Supergirl's boyfriend ought to be some sort of detective, someone who in a nonsuperhero film might actually be the hero. Since supergirl is a teenager, it kind of makes sense that her boyfriend not be much older than she is. I'd say someone who works for the FBI or CIA would make the best choice. FBI would probably be better, and of course this FBI agent frequently gets himself in situations he can't handle and needs rescuing by supergirl, I think that would work the best, what do you think?
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Old September 13 2012, 03:46 PM   #81
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

^ my preference would definitely be for an older, more mature Supergirl. Probably in her early to mid 20s, rather than a highschool student. Superheros (male and female) always seem to have love interests in these films. It would be nice to see someone who would be a good match for her from the comics, like Brainiac 5.
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Old September 13 2012, 07:40 PM   #82
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

Captain Atkin wrote: View Post
^ my preference would definitely be for an older, more mature Supergirl. Probably in her early to mid 20s, rather than a highschool student. Superheros (male and female) always seem to have love interests in these films. It would be nice to see someone who would be a good match for her from the comics, like Brainiac 5.
I think 18 years old is old enough but not too old to call her Supergirl. if she is in her mid twenties, she should probably be called Superwoman. A girl implies a juvenile, probably early college age, so as not to get in trouble with dating and so forth. The thing about supergirl is that the actress playing her will grow up fast if it is live action, so when they decide to produce a live action movie will determine which actress they select.
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Old September 13 2012, 07:43 PM   #83
Nerys Myk
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

So my town's annual "Girls' Night Out" event should be renamed?
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Old September 13 2012, 07:47 PM   #84
Dream
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

Mars wrote: View Post
Captain Atkin wrote: View Post
^ my preference would definitely be for an older, more mature Supergirl. Probably in her early to mid 20s, rather than a highschool student. Superheros (male and female) always seem to have love interests in these films. It would be nice to see someone who would be a good match for her from the comics, like Brainiac 5.
I think 18 years old is old enough but not too old to call her Supergirl. if she is in her mid twenties, she should probably be called Superwoman. A girl implies a juvenile, probably early college age, so as not to get in trouble with dating and so forth. The thing about supergirl is that the actress playing her will grow up fast if it is live action, so when they decide to produce a live action movie will determine which actress they select.
She also needs to look good in a miniskirt.
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Old September 13 2012, 07:57 PM   #85
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Re: Supergirl Animated Movie

Shiera Hall still called herself Hawkgirl when she was a grandmother.
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