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Old September 12 2012, 06:30 AM   #16
R. Star
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Re: Lt. Barclay

Janeway does fit the seeming requirement that Admirals be complete jerks for no reason.
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Old September 12 2012, 07:07 AM   #17
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Re: Lt. Barclay

Yes. Picard is just too genteel to cut it.

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Old September 12 2012, 07:22 AM   #18
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Re: Lt. Barclay

teacake wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post

Rank, Teacake is how we keep score.
Yes, Admiral.
As you were Vice Admiral.
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Old September 12 2012, 02:46 PM   #19
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Re: Lt. Barclay

I know I make people mad when I say this, but Janeway isn't fit to bring Picard his Earl Gray nonetheless give him orders.

Probabaly he's thinking she's some twit who got lost and landed a desk job because she couldn't handle another command.
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Old September 12 2012, 03:05 PM   #20
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Re: Lt. Barclay

R. Star wrote: View Post
I know I make people mad when I say this, but Janeway isn't fit to bring Picard his Earl Gray nonetheless give him orders.

Probabaly he's thinking she's some twit who got lost and landed a desk job because she couldn't handle another command.
Well maybe Janeway wanted to be an Admiral and took the assignment. Remember Picard turned it down on an occasion or two.
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Old September 12 2012, 10:42 PM   #21
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Re: Lt. Barclay

R. Star wrote: View Post
I know I make people mad when I say this, but Janeway isn't fit to bring Picard his Earl Gray nonetheless give him orders.

Probabaly he's thinking she's some twit who got lost and landed a desk job because she couldn't handle another command.
Obviously the authorities don't agree with you
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Old September 13 2012, 03:54 AM   #22
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Re: Lt. Barclay

teacake wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
I know I make people mad when I say this, but Janeway isn't fit to bring Picard his Earl Gray nonetheless give him orders.

Probabaly he's thinking she's some twit who got lost and landed a desk job because she couldn't handle another command.
Obviously the authorities don't agree with you
Of course not. They're jerks. [/circular logic]
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Old September 13 2012, 06:24 AM   #23
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Re: Lt. Barclay

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More so, Kim was doing an Ensigns job. If he wanted to be a lieutenant then he had to be transferred to a new post. It's a waste of resources to put a lieutenant in a post that can be filled in by some kid fresh out of the academy.
If Operations officer is an ensign's job, why was a LIEUTENANT COMMANDER doing it on Picard's ship? And third in command, no less.
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Old September 13 2012, 06:42 AM   #24
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Re: Lt. Barclay

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Staying in the same job on a starship is like being held back at school.
So Riker voluntarily held himself back for SEVEN grades?

I wonder if Chell got promoted when he took over Neelix's kitchen?
That would surely have been a demotion, since Neelix never had any real rank.

SimpleLogic wrote: View Post
That was the thing about Voyager you'd think promoting Kim would have been good for morale since everyone under him in ops could have earned something too. Even though they were on a small ship and far away from home Janeway could have done it. Maybe she wasn't authorized since they would have been entitled a lot of back-pay.
She demoted and re-promoted Tom Paris, and I seem to recall Tuvok getting a promotion at some point. So it's not that she wasn't authorized. She probably didn't want people to think that the way to a promotion was by being a naive momma's boy. as Harry was.
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Old September 13 2012, 06:59 AM   #25
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Re: Lt. Barclay

But she laughed at Kim on two separate occasions when he thought he was owed a promotion.

Tiberius, Enterprise was 10 times the size of Voyager, which means the job was probably ten times as hard and the staff under him (Yes Kim has staff under him, but not very many and all enlisted.) was tens times as large and might have included ensigns and lieutenants as well which then required a lieutenant commander to ensure the pecking order. Every blinking bulb on the operations LCARS is actually some guy in a room making sure some really important machine doesn't blow up, but when it does start to blow up, they send a poke through to Kim, or Data to let them know that shit is getting real..

Neelix wasn't a Starfleet officer so a lot of the rules didn't apply to him so strictly. The regulations might just be older, mothballed in fact, but if Chell was suddenly going to be in charge of thousands of tons of unreplicated food every year, and have to organize additional staff at any point in the process of raw food to finished meal, he'd at least have to be a lieutenant junior grade to push around the ensigns who wanted a tour of duty in the kitchen every third Thursday, or to set up parties and special feasts. Today in the Navy, any Navy there must be several seamen that have risen to the rank of Admiral through the catering corp. It's a difficult job which if it's botched up in the least, people die.
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Old September 13 2012, 09:45 AM   #26
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Re: Lt. Barclay

Janeway was promoted to Admiral as she was a menace to the space lanes.
Kirk was demoted to Captain because he was a menace as an Admiral.
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Old September 13 2012, 10:34 AM   #27
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Re: Lt. Barclay

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Tiberius, Enterprise was 10 times the size of Voyager, which means the job was probably ten times as hard and the staff under him (Yes Kim has staff under him, but not very many and all enlisted.) was tens times as large and might have included ensigns and lieutenants as well which then required a lieutenant commander to ensure the pecking order. Every blinking bulb on the operations LCARS is actually some guy in a room making sure some really important machine doesn't blow up, but when it does start to blow up, they send a poke through to Kim, or Data to let them know that shit is getting real..
Actually, Operations doesn't coordinate people, it coordinates departments. If Engineering wants to use a particular sensor array and stellar cartography wants to use it to, then Operations has to sort it out. So since Voyager would have had the same basic departments as the Enterprise, I don't see why it's a bigger job. A little bigger, perhaps, given that the Enterprise was given a whole lot more science missions, but if Voyager had not been taken to the Delta Quadrant, Harry would have been Ops for many science missions anyway. And Voyager is a science ship, after all.
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Old September 13 2012, 11:44 AM   #28
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Re: Lt. Barclay

Departments are people. By "guy in a room" I was meaning that there isn't an AI monitoring every widget on the ship. Harry is monitoring the functions of the ship which are all mostly staffed by people who input towards the data Harry collects on the bridge. Although it's so seamless, that all the little people making the starship work might as well be invisible.

On TOS this one episode, Chekov pushed the torpedo button, and then the camera rolled down to the torpedo bay, and there's a big flashing red light down there, and the guy in charge says, "load up another one and fire it off". So Checkov's button didn't actually make the torpedoes fire, it just made a light bulb in the torpedo bay "blink" which got the attention of the people who actually work for a living.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Operations_officer

You're also talking about resource management which would fall under the XO's perview.
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Old September 15 2012, 01:09 PM   #29
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Re: Lt. Barclay

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Departments are people. By "guy in a room" I was meaning that there isn't an AI monitoring every widget on the ship. Harry is monitoring the functions of the ship which are all mostly staffed by people who input towards the data Harry collects on the bridge. Although it's so seamless, that all the little people making the starship work might as well be invisible.
Doesn't matter. If engineering wants some time on the lateral sensors and so does stellar cartography, the demands on the operations officer will be the same, whether each department has ten people or a hundred people.

Because it's two departments in both cases.
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Old September 15 2012, 06:53 PM   #30
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Re: Lt. Barclay

Maybe that's why he kept getting dates despite being a useless tosser? All those women wanted Harry to rule in their favour on principle since he "owed them" for sliding into second base.
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