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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate The Eternal Tide.
Outstanding 83 49.70%
Above Average 50 29.94%
Average 27 16.17%
Below Average 2 1.20%
Poor 5 2.99%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 11 2012, 06:07 PM   #286
Paris
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Scout101 wrote: View Post
...Comment on the 'boycott' bit, though: Now that you know Janeway is only absent, and not killed, do you intend to go back and read some of what came out in the interim? Not only will this book be a bit confusing/empty without the backstory, but I think your protest deprived you of some of the better Trek books to come out in a while. The stuff written about her death may be more palatable knowing it's not permanent...

Full Circle was great, and seems a waste to jump back into the books now without seeing the whole Delta Quadrant mission.
Totally agree with this. Full Circle, Unworthy and Children of the Storm are great reads. Full Circle even features Janeway alive for big chunks. You really should check them out. IMO, you'll love KJ even more after reading them
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Old September 11 2012, 06:47 PM   #287
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Paris wrote: View Post
Scout101 wrote: View Post
...Comment on the 'boycott' bit, though: Now that you know Janeway is only absent, and not killed, do you intend to go back and read some of what came out in the interim? Not only will this book be a bit confusing/empty without the backstory, but I think your protest deprived you of some of the better Trek books to come out in a while. The stuff written about her death may be more palatable knowing it's not permanent...

Full Circle was great, and seems a waste to jump back into the books now without seeing the whole Delta Quadrant mission.
Totally agree with this. Full Circle, Unworthy and Children of the Storm are great reads. Full Circle even features Janeway alive for big chunks. You really should check them out. IMO, you'll love KJ even more after reading them
I agree, Voyager has been amazing in the hands of Beyer. She really knows these characters and has really used Voy to its full potential.
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Old September 11 2012, 07:09 PM   #288
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Hmm. I do see certain parallels with Sheridan's death and resurrection in B5. With q and Kes filling in for Lorien.
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Old September 11 2012, 08:25 PM   #289
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

hbquikcomjamesl wrote: View Post
Hmm. I do see certain parallels with Sheridan's death and resurrection in B5. With q and Kes filling in for Lorien.
So is Lady Q Kosh?

"If you go to the Giant Borg Cube, you will die".
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Old September 11 2012, 08:50 PM   #290
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

We are all Kosh.

But I had forgotten that Kosh (the real Kosh) was the one who said that line.
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Old September 11 2012, 08:50 PM   #291
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

teacake wrote: View Post


My Boycott.. is OVER.

It's so clean and pretty.. almost don't want to crack it open
Lovely photo, teacake!

Trust me, you will not regret cracking this book open. It is awesome! I will also echo others who have said that it is worthwhile to go back and read Full Circle, Unworthy and Children of the Storm. They are all excellent books.

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
hbquikcomjamesl wrote: View Post
Hmm. I do see certain parallels with Sheridan's death and resurrection in B5. With q and Kes filling in for Lorien.
So is Lady Q Kosh?

"If you go to the Giant Borg Cube, you will die".
What a great parallel.

Though, it may be of interest to note that Lorien tried to convince Sheridan to let go of the world of living because death is inevitable. There was something similar here with Janeway, but Kes and Q Junior encouraged her to hold on to what she has in the world of the living.
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Old September 11 2012, 10:16 PM   #292
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Comment on the 'boycott' bit, though: Now that you know Janeway is only absent, and not killed, do you intend to go back and read some of what came out in the interim? Not only will this book be a bit confusing/empty without the backstory, but I think your protest deprived you of some of the better Trek books to come out in a while. The stuff written about her death may be more palatable knowing it's not permanent.
Per my promise to Kirsten Beyer, I ordered all three from Amazon, however I have already read them (I got copies from the used book store).

I think she does owe an acknowledgement to David Gerrold. The use of the amalgamated "being" in Unworthy, it reminded me very much of the Trek Animated Episode BEM.

http://www.danhausertrek.com/AnimatedSeries/Be.html
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Old September 12 2012, 05:59 AM   #293
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I've also ordered Children of the Storm which my boycott kept me from. And I have a few other Trek books I now intend to purchase.
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Old September 12 2012, 01:59 PM   #294
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

teacake wrote: View Post
I've also ordered Children of the Storm which my boycott kept me from. And I have a few other Trek books I now intend to purchase.
I am glad you are finding some good things to get you back into Trek books. I really enjoyed Children of the Storm. The Voyager series, since Full Circle, has been the most constant in it quality.
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Old September 13 2012, 03:25 AM   #295
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Not good at reviews but I enjoyed it and am looking forward to reading more. Boycott over for me as well.
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Old September 13 2012, 02:28 PM   #296
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Welcome back, I guess? The books you were boycotting were some of the better ones that have been put out lately, and ironically, did more with Janeway's character and the Voyager family than any have in a while, so it's kinda a hollow victory at best, IMO.

Looking forward to watching Team Janeway go back and read the stuff they were boycotting, and seeing them realize how silly it was, and how they were depriving themselves of some pretty amazing reading. And wonderful treatments of the characters they said they loved, but boycotted because they preferred the shoddy treatment that they USED to receive before Kristen stepped in...

Not being pissed about Janeway's treatment and screen time in something like the Spirit Walk books, but refusing to read Full Circle? She was more present in the books after her death than she'd been in the several before it, anyway...
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Old September 13 2012, 03:55 PM   #297
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I think that it speaks to Beyer's talent as a writer that those that boycotted will go back and read what came before, because TET really shows off her skills.
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Old September 13 2012, 04:19 PM   #298
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Looking forward to watching Team Janeway go back and read the stuff they were boycotting, and seeing them realize how silly it was, and how they were depriving themselves of some pretty amazing reading. And wonderful treatments of the characters they said they loved, but boycotted because they preferred the shoddy treatment that they USED to receive before Kristen stepped in.
But it wasn’t silly at all, that is the point. We sacrificed something to gain something better and that was a living breathing Janeway. You may not understand it, but for years Janeway fans were put down, we were told our favorite show was a useless piece of junk and our favorite character was just as useless or detrimental. We were also told this attitude didn’t affect any decision to kill Janeway in the books.

We didn’t miss anything, I’ve read the books and while I totally agree that Kirsten Beyer is most probably the best Trek Writer currently writing, I can tell you we didn’t miss a thing. The whole point being that “we were silly” or “too stupid to understand how publishing works” or “never read Trek Novels in the first place” was the real silliness of this whole demonstration.

I have yet to find any Trek novel “pretty amazing reading”, I have found many enjoyable but never “amazing”. Even your much praised “Destiny” books have two huge plot holes, one of which involves math.

My excuse to read Trek novels is to follow beloved characters. This involves reading about Kathryn Janeway, if she is missing then the book isn’t that “amazing” or enjoyable. I have already read all three of Beyer’s previous Voyager books but “amazing” is not the adjective I would have used.

But all opinions of the books aside, the boycott attempted to right a wrong. It didn’t matter how great Kirsten Beyer’s books were, what mattered was to gain attention to our cause. What mattered was to get Janeway back and whatever we sacrificed was totally worth the effort.

I am glad you enjoyed the books, but you should understand that not everyone shares that opinion, nor are they silly because they don’t.
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Old September 13 2012, 05:16 PM   #299
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Brit wrote: View Post
Scout101 wrote: View Post
Looking forward to watching Team Janeway go back and read the stuff they were boycotting, and seeing them realize how silly it was, and how they were depriving themselves of some pretty amazing reading. And wonderful treatments of the characters they said they loved, but boycotted because they preferred the shoddy treatment that they USED to receive before Kristen stepped in.
But it wasn’t silly at all, that is the point. We sacrificed something to gain something better and that was a living breathing Janeway. You may not understand it, but for years Janeway fans were put down, we were told our favorite show was a useless piece of junk and our favorite character was just as useless or detrimental. We were also told this attitude didn’t affect any decision to kill Janeway in the books.

We didn’t miss anything, I’ve read the books and while I totally agree that Kirsten Beyer is most probably the best Trek Writer currently writing, I can tell you we didn’t miss a thing. The whole point being that “we were silly” or “too stupid to understand how publishing works” or “never read Trek Novels in the first place” was the real silliness of this whole demonstration.

I have yet to find any Trek novel “pretty amazing reading”, I have found many enjoyable but never “amazing”. Even your much praised “Destiny” books have two huge plot holes, one of which involves math.

My excuse to read Trek novels is to follow beloved characters. This involves reading about Kathryn Janeway, if she is missing then the book isn’t that “amazing” or enjoyable. I have already read all three of Beyer’s previous Voyager books but “amazing” is not the adjective I would have used.

But all opinions of the books aside, the boycott attempted to right a wrong. It didn’t matter how great Kirsten Beyer’s books were, what mattered was to gain attention to our cause. What mattered was to get Janeway back and whatever we sacrificed was totally worth the effort.

I am glad you enjoyed the books, but you should understand that not everyone shares that opinion, nor are they silly because they don’t.
I am glad that she is back for you. I, for one, am glad she is back as well.
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Old September 13 2012, 05:54 PM   #300
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Brit wrote: View Post
But it wasn’t silly at all, that is the point. We sacrificed something to gain something better and that was a living breathing Janeway.
That is incorrect. Janeway was not brought back because of the boycott, but because of internal creative decisions.


You may not understand it, but for years Janeway fans were put down, we were told our favorite show was a useless piece of junk and our favorite character was just as useless or detrimental. We were also told this attitude didn’t affect any decision to kill Janeway in the books.
I'm certain that it didn't. Of course there are fans out there who put Voyager down, as there are for any show. And yes, regrettably, there was a faction of fans who were particularly harsh on Janeway because of her sex. As well as a separate group of fans who just didn't think the character was written very well on the show. But there are plenty of different factions within fandom, and no single one of them shapes the policy at Pocket Books. Pocket's goal is to publish fiction that appeals as broadly as possible to the fanbase as a whole. No single work is going to appeal to everyone, but the goal is to produce an eclectic range of materials to satisfy as many people as possible. And no single faction within fandom can unilaterally dictate the decisions made within Pocket. The Janeway-haters within fandom didn't bring about her death any more than the BBJ-ers brought her back to life. Fandom is just too diverse for any one faction's viewpoint to dictate creative decisions.


We didn’t miss anything, I’ve read the books and while I totally agree that Kirsten Beyer is most probably the best Trek Writer currently writing, I can tell you we didn’t miss a thing.
Umm, that doesn't make sense. If you did read the books, then of course you didn't miss them.


The whole point being that “we were silly” or “too stupid to understand how publishing works” or “never read Trek Novels in the first place” was the real silliness of this whole demonstration.
If you choose to interpret explanation and clarification as personal attack, then that's very sad, but it's not the fault of the people trying to explain and clarify the truth.


My excuse to read Trek novels is to follow beloved characters. This involves reading about Kathryn Janeway, if she is missing then the book isn’t that “amazing” or enjoyable. I have already read all three of Beyer’s previous Voyager books but “amazing” is not the adjective I would have used.
But Janeway was anything but "missing" in those books. She was all over them, even without being alive.


But all opinions of the books aside, the boycott attempted to right a wrong. It didn’t matter how great Kirsten Beyer’s books were, what mattered was to gain attention to our cause. What mattered was to get Janeway back and whatever we sacrificed was totally worth the effort.
That would only be true if it happened because of your boycott. It didn't. You're not as large a faction of fandom as you think you are. Janeway is, at best, the third-most popular VGR character overall, after Seven and the Doctor. And from what I gather, Kirsten's novels have all sold pretty well, so the boycott did not make a significant dent in sales.


It's regrettable if certain factions within fandom have made you feel persecuted for liking Janeway. But please understand, that has nothing to do with the creative choices made by Pocket Books. Janeway's death wasn't an attack directed at you. It was about exploring a new story direction. It was probably about making the Borg a genuine threat again by having their attack inflict real consequences. And it was about allowing the characters to deal with those consequences. As always, it's about telling the stories that the authors and editors think are worth telling. Not everyone is going to be happy with those story choices, but that doesn't mean those choices are intended as attacks against anyone.
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