RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,368
Posts: 5,446,527
Members: 24,971
Currently online: 543
Newest member: JoeCabby

TrekToday headlines

Crowded Coop Trek-Themed Bags and Wallets
By: T'Bonz on Oct 31

Original Series Hoodies
By: T'Bonz on Oct 31

Star Trek-Planet Of The Apes Comic Preview
By: T'Bonz on Oct 31

November-December 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Oct 31

Kruge Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Oct 30

Two Trek Actors In Green Room
By: T'Bonz on Oct 30

Trek UglyDolls First Look
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

New Star Trek Select Action Figure
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

Trek Actors In Elsa & Fred
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

The Red Shirt Diaries #9
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 9 2012, 02:20 AM   #76
Brolan
Commodore
 
Brolan's Avatar
 
Location: Backwoods Minnesota
Re: DS9's growing popularity

Law and Order was cancelled after 20 years of television. 20 years. That's longer than DS9, Voy, and Ent COMBINED. And they still managed spin-offs.

If viewers like your product, they will watch.
Brolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2012, 02:34 AM   #77
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: DS9's growing popularity

craig keith wrote: View Post

Dont get me wrong Some of Voyager and ENT Was very good but they just didnt learn the lessons that the guys at ds9 did and i think that was the start of trek downfall on tv .. not necessarily the ratings
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the Trek ratings slide began with Deep Space Nine, not Voyager and Enterprise.

I'm still of the opinion there was simply too much Trek. Deep Space Nine and Voyager running at the same time along side a movie series. Pocket Books publishing two mass market paperbacks every month and comic book series running along side.

If you have too much of anything, it is no longer perceived as special. Trek went from seventy-nine episodes and four movies prior to 1987 to seven hundred episodes and ten movies by 2005. It started repeating itself over and over and over again and drove away everyone but the hardest of hard core fans.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2012, 08:04 AM   #78
teacock
Fleet Admiral
 
teacock's Avatar
 
Location: teacake
Re: DS9's growing popularity

Brolan wrote: View Post
Law and Order was cancelled after 20 years of television. 20 years. That's longer than DS9, Voy, and Ent COMBINED. And they still managed spin-offs.

If viewers like your product, they will watch.
Big Macs with their wonderful sameness sell very well.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2012, 11:08 AM   #79
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: DS9's growing popularity

Brolan wrote: View Post
Law and Order was cancelled after 20 years of television. 20 years. That's longer than DS9, Voy, and Ent COMBINED. And they still managed spin-offs.

If viewers like your product, they will watch.
I suspect L&O was cheaper per episode to produce than DSN, VOY or ENT. But L&O changed cast fairly often, sometimes the new characters where liked other times not so much. If you are looking at the L&O spin offs, the longest running one is SVU, followed by CI. Other spin offs only last 1 season.

It was perhaps a genre which was easier to relate to than a Sci-Fi show. But of course Sci-Fi shows can last longer than 7 or even 10 years.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 9 2012, 09:26 PM   #80
craig keith
Lieutenant
 
craig keith's Avatar
 
Location: Bournemouth (United Kingdom)
View craig keith's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to craig keith
Re: DS9's growing popularity

BillJ wrote: View Post
craig keith wrote: View Post

Dont get me wrong Some of Voyager and ENT Was very good but they just didnt learn the lessons that the guys at ds9 did and i think that was the start of trek downfall on tv .. not necessarily the ratings
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the Trek ratings slide began with Deep Space Nine, not Voyager and Enterprise.

I'm still of the opinion there was simply too much Trek. Deep Space Nine and Voyager running at the same time along side a movie series. Pocket Books publishing two mass market paperbacks every month and comic book series running along side.

If you have too much of anything, it is no longer perceived as special. Trek went from seventy-nine episodes and four movies prior to 1987 to seven hundred episodes and ten movies by 2005. It started repeating itself over and over and over again and drove away everyone but the hardest of hard core fans.
The thing is rating were always going to do down when ds9 started - tng was still on the air so it was competing with that and then once that finished voyager started and generations was being made. The ratings were also going to be lower and that is acceptable due to satuation of the trek market however in order to keep more of the market then they did, They had to keep doing something different and not "space the final frontier" Even if voyager was flying backwards
__________________
There nothing to be gained by second guessing yourself. You can't remake the past .... So look ahead .... Or risk being left behind
craig keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2012, 05:21 PM   #81
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: DS9's growing popularity

I suspect the ratings decline had less to do with Trek saturation (although direct competition between two Trek shows may have played a role) and more to do with the decline of the first-run syndication market and the failure of UPN as a viable fifth network (ultimately forcing it to merge with WB and form the CW in 2006).
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 12:28 AM   #82
PKTrekGirl
Arrogant Niner Thug
 
PKTrekGirl's Avatar
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to PKTrekGirl
Re: DS9's growing popularity

Harvey wrote: View Post
I suspect the ratings decline had less to do with Trek saturation (although direct competition between two Trek shows may have played a role) and more to do with the decline of the first-run syndication market and the failure of UPN as a viable fifth network (ultimately forcing it to merge with WB and form the CW in 2006).
I also think that as cable grew by leaps and bounds (which was occurring at exactly the same time DS9 was on) viewers had more choices of shows to pick from, and the casual fan (who might not even care that much about scifi, but started watching TNG because there were a lot slimmer pickings) just picked something else. In the cable market we have now, TNG would certainly not enjoy the kind of ratings it got during it's first run. That is not the way the market is structured any longer.

And frankly, DS9's ratings back then really don't have much to do with it's growing popularity now.

I think that audiences are more mature now...and now that there is some distance from all these shows, they can be viewed more objectively. I 100% agree with the assessment that DS9 is the most closely related of all the Trek shows to TOS. TNG is so heavily weighed down with 80's ideology it's become very dated. DS9 has real characters who are flawed and much more believable - much more like Kirk and Co. than TNG...whose characters are all so tediously 'evolved'.
__________________
DS9 on DVD - Now 99.923% Borg-Free!

Star Trek XI - "You know, if you have ten extra sombreros lying around, I have an idea on how to improve your current avatar..." - Samuel T. Cogley
PKTrekGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 01:52 AM   #83
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: DS9's growing popularity

PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post

And frankly, DS9's ratings back then really don't have much to do with it's growing popularity now.
I'm still waiting for someone to provide some tangible proof of its growing popularity.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 02:32 AM   #84
Ryan8bit
Commodore
 
Ryan8bit's Avatar
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: DS9's growing popularity

It's hard to prove any kind of popularity, but if you went by Netflix ratings, DS9 is one of the highest rated of the Trek series, although only marginally. Generally all the series are rated the same there, even Enterprise. While that doesn't really indicate a rise in popularity, it may show that there isn't such a large disparity that people think exists.
Ryan8bit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 03:03 AM   #85
Dream
Admiral
 
Dream's Avatar
 
Re: DS9's growing popularity

PKTrekGirl wrote: View Post
TNG is so heavily weighed down with 80's ideology it's become very dated. DS9 has real characters who are flawed and much more believable - much more like Kirk and Co. than TNG...whose characters are all so tediously 'evolved'.
Not all good dramas require it's main character to be at each other's throats. The characters constant bitching at each other in NuBSG was one of its biggest flaws for me. At some point it turns into a soap opera, which thankfully DS9 didn't reach.

The TNG cast not fighting all the time didn't mean the characters was evolved, they were just being professionals.
Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 03:11 AM   #86
Dream
Admiral
 
Dream's Avatar
 
Re: DS9's growing popularity

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
It's hard to prove any kind of popularity, but if you went by Netflix ratings, DS9 is one of the highest rated of the Trek series, although only marginally. Generally all the series are rated the same there, even Enterprise. While that doesn't really indicate a rise in popularity, it may show that there isn't such a large disparity that people think exists.
TNG still does very well in rerun syndication. I think it is the only Trek still being rerun right now in America. Was it on SyFy?

TNG reruns were even beating new episodes of Stargate Universe in the ratings!
Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 02:56 PM   #87
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: DS9's growing popularity

Dream wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
It's hard to prove any kind of popularity, but if you went by Netflix ratings, DS9 is one of the highest rated of the Trek series, although only marginally. Generally all the series are rated the same there, even Enterprise. While that doesn't really indicate a rise in popularity, it may show that there isn't such a large disparity that people think exists.
TNG still does very well in rerun syndication. I think it is the only Trek still being rerun right now in America. Was it on SyFy?

TNG reruns were even beating new episodes of Stargate Universe in the ratings!
TOS runs on MeTV Saturdays at 9PM EST.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 03:28 PM   #88
Distorted Humor
Fleet Captain
 
Distorted Humor's Avatar
 
Location: Z'ha'dum
Re: DS9's growing popularity

One thing to remember is that with Star Trek, TNG, is that the only real competitors was live sports and what the Major broadcasts networks had on.

For example, in 1990, in my market even if you had Basic cable you had

Major Broadcast Networks: ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX
Sports: ESPN and TBS (TBS main feature was that it showed Atlanta Braves Games and reruns)
A few cable channels, which consisted of reruns of old shows and perhaps nature documentaries.
PBS
"Independent" Channels - On my area it was WJZY (which turned off at midnight!!) and a Chicago broadcaster (wgn I think)
And a few assorted channels like the Home Shopping network.

The Independent channels would buy both reruns of stuff that was on broadcast TV, but also first run syndication, which in 1990 or so was Baywatch (Babewatch) and Star Trek, TNG.

Thus, MANY people would click though the TV, see that Star Trek TNG was on, and sit and watch it. Or they would sit there kids in front of Star Trek TNG as they knew it would be kid safe and wholesome.

Just a few year later in say, 1994 many of those Non-network stations had signed up on to one of the new networks (Which eventually merged into the CW.) and the whole idea of producing a expensive show for first run syndication died. In addition, the number of cable channels doubled and then tripled, balkenizing TV viewership.

So for example, almost EVERYONE knew who Picard, Data, Worf, The Borg, and so on where. Even my friends who HATE SF will have fond memories of Data.

By the time DS9 rolled around, the market was fracturing. Heck, out of all the Syndication shows out there, only DS9, Xena, and Babylon 5 really survived (Babylon 5 survived the ending of its "syndication network" IIRC)
__________________
In the Marmalade forest (forest), between the make believe trees, in a cottage cheese cottage! Lives Albie, (Albie,) Albie, (Albie,) Albie the Racist Dragon...
Distorted Humor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 04:04 PM   #89
Dream
Admiral
 
Dream's Avatar
 
Re: DS9's growing popularity

Distorted Humor wrote: View Post
One thing to remember is that with Star Trek, TNG, is that the only real competitors was live sports and what the Major broadcasts networks had on.
Yes, TNG didn't have any real competitors since it was the first very popular syndicated drama.

But it was still the first Trek to follow TOS. Paramount was still taking a big risk by making a series with such a large budget and not going to the networks. Many Trek fans were outraged that a sequel was being done, and believed that Kirk, Spock and Bones could never be replaced. They complained about very silly things like how the captain of the Enterprise shouldn't be bald.

The first season of TNG was pretty shaky, but was decent enough to get more and more viewers. People starting talking about it and its ratings and fanbase grew steadily. The show started to get pretty good too.

Just a few year later in say, 1994 many of those Non-network stations had signed up on to one of the new networks (Which eventually merged into the CW.) and the whole idea of producing a expensive show for first run syndication died. In addition, the number of cable channels doubled and then tripled, balkenizing TV viewership.

By the time DS9 rolled around, the market was fracturing. Heck, out of all the Syndication shows out there, only DS9, Xena, and Babylon 5 really survived (Babylon 5 survived the ending of its "syndication network" IIRC)
It's pretty sad first run syndication which TNG made so popular is dead these days. The last first run syndicated show I watched was Legend of the Seeker, which had good enough ratings for a season 3, but was still cancelled anyway because they couldn't any place to air it.

One of the issues I had with Voyager was that they couldn't take any risks with the writing since it was on a network like UPN. They wanted the show to be pretty much TNG lite.
Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 05:36 PM   #90
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: DS9's growing popularity

Distorted Humor wrote: View Post
One thing to remember is that with Star Trek, TNG, is that the only real competitors was live sports and what the Major broadcasts networks had on.

For example, in 1990, in my market even if you had Basic cable you had

Major Broadcast Networks: ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX
Sports: ESPN and TBS (TBS main feature was that it showed Atlanta Braves Games and reruns)
A few cable channels, which consisted of reruns of old shows and perhaps nature documentaries.
PBS
"Independent" Channels - On my area it was WJZY (which turned off at midnight!!) and a Chicago broadcaster (wgn I think)
And a few assorted channels like the Home Shopping network.

The Independent channels would buy both reruns of stuff that was on broadcast TV, but also first run syndication, which in 1990 or so was Baywatch (Babewatch) and Star Trek, TNG.
When me and my wife first got together in 1992, we had QUBE cable through Time Warner and had sixty channels. TNG may have had the playing field to itself as far as sci-fi shows go, but it had general competition throughout its run. There were more than a handful of channels to watch.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.