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Old September 8 2012, 11:16 PM   #76
Set Harth
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Gaith wrote: View Post
or b) the twins were conceived after Vader suited up, which probably implies rape.
Nope, no contradiction with the OT to see there, move along.

Gaith wrote: View Post
it does suggest either that a) Vader wasn't yet in the suit when he first came to Honoghr, and the Noghri don't mention that
Same difference, really: suit or no suit, if he's Darth Vader at that point he's still evil.

Gaith wrote: View Post
Either way, it's far less logically problematic than Vader standing right next to Leia and not wondering why she looks so much like him.
I'm not really seeing it. Besides, let's say she did look like him. Given that he thinks his child is dead, why would someone looking like him arouse suspicion or wondering? If you saw someone that looked somewhat like you, would you tend to assume they were offspring you didn't know about?

Hartzilla2007 wrote:
besides not everyone reads the books hence why making anything live action adhere to them is madness.
Tell that to Coruscant.
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Old September 8 2012, 11:48 PM   #77
Gaith
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
or b) the twins were conceived after Vader suited up, which probably implies rape.
Nope, no contradiction with the OT to see there, move along.
No, there really isn't. Where in the OT do you recall anyone saying that the twins were the product of a marriage and/or romance? (Suited-up Vader could probably have gotten it on with concubines in controlled-atmosphere situations, provided they wore gas masks or something.)



Set Harth wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
it does suggest either that a) Vader wasn't yet in the suit when he first came to Honoghr, and the Noghri don't mention that
Same difference, really: suit or no suit, if he's Darth Vader at that point he's still evil.
And still not in conflict with the OT.



Set Harth wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
Given that he thinks his child is dead, why would someone looking like him arouse suspicion or wondering? If you saw someone that looked somewhat like you, would you tend to assume they were offspring you didn't know about?
If I saw a kid that looked like me, and felt his/her raw Force presence (this is the most important point), and then read rumors in Imperial Intelligence files that she'd been adopted... I might start asking some questions.

Even the OT has its own inconsistencies.
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Old September 9 2012, 12:21 AM   #78
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
besides not everyone reads the books hence why making anything live action adhere to them is madness.
Actually franchises ae moving toward the Star Wars aproach.
And these franchise would be?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote:
besides not everyone reads the books hence why making anything live action adhere to them is madness.
Tell that to Coruscant.
Using a name from the books does not equate to adhering to the books, unless they actually mention the plot of a book as happening onscreen its just a shout out.
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Old September 9 2012, 12:35 AM   #79
Set Harth
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Using a name from the books does not equate to adhering to the books, unless they actually mention the plot of a book as happening onscreen its just a shout out.
"That business on Cato Neimoidia doesn't, doesn't count."

Gaith wrote:
And still not in conflict with the OT.
Yet still something better looked at as an error on Zahn's part, instead of bending over backwards to make it work, inventing Rape Vader and concubines to fix something which was ( given the ROTJ script ) most likely divergent with Lucas' intent regarding the circumstances of Luke's conception.

Gaith wrote:
and felt his/her raw Force presence (this is the most important point)
The most important point, which strangely wasn't mentioned at all in the previous post, which focused on the apparently jaw-dropping similarity between Hayden Christensen and Carrie Fisher. But on to the important point: it is only your assumption that he felt any "raw Force presence" from her. He didn't feel anything from Luke until Luke had already started his training and was consciously using the Force, something ANH Leia is assuredly not doing. Palpatine felt nothing from untrained Anakin on the Coruscant landing platform.

Gaith wrote:
I might start asking some questions.
Right. I don't think you're going to be feeling any Force aptitudes, and Imperial Intelligence is presumably out of the question, so I take it the proximity of anyone who vaguely looks like you often leads to a lot of these... questions?

How does that turn out?
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Last edited by Set Harth; September 9 2012 at 12:52 AM.
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Old September 9 2012, 01:02 AM   #80
Gaith
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote:
And still not in conflict with the OT.
Yet still something better looked at as an error on Zahn's part, instead of bending over backwards to make it work, inventing Rape Vader and concubines to fix something which was ( given the ROTJ script ) most likely divergent with Lucas' intent regarding the circumstances of Luke's conception.
Please elaborate. What in the ROTJ script makes a rape conception at all implausible? Besides, if anything, Lucas' seeming intent was that the twins' mother was alive for several years after they were born.

(And we all know how that turned out.)


Either way, the dating of the Clone Wars is a tiny, throwaway reference in Zahn's novels, which overall mesh far better with the OT than the PT does.
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Old September 9 2012, 01:02 AM   #81
I am not Spock
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
You know why I like Trek's canon policy? It includes more than three movies' worth of live-action space adventure that doesn't suck!
But Star Wars consists of 6 movies, a crappy holiday special some possibly related movies with Ewoks, 2 animated films with the droids, and animated micro-series, 1 CGI movie, 4 and soon to be 5 seasons of a TV show, and another animated show currently in production.

And no your opinion of any of those does not affect the canon status of any of that AT ALL. (I really wish fans would get that canon isn't a personal opinion unless you actually own the show in question and even then they can change their mind.)

besides not everyone reads the books hence why making anything live action adhere to them is madness.
Yes. Star Wars needs its expanded universe to flesh out the details, because actually not a lot is given, in the movies. The films are a tiny snapshot in time in the SW universe.

ST canon policy dictates that only on screen materials are canon. Which is fair enough, as Trek has over 700 episodes spread over six television series (counting TAS) and 11, soon to be 12, movies.

SW has six movies, two spin off Ewok movies, an Ewoks cartoon, a holiday special, a droids cartoon, a Clone Wars miniseries, a CGI Clone Wars series, a CGI Clone Wars movie, an animated spoof series (Detours), and a possible live action series in the making.

And that's before we even get to the countless books, video games, comics, etc in both franchises.

I haven't read a lot of the SW books. Or the ST ones, for that matter. More into visual materials based on these franchises.

Personal opinion doesn't make something non canon. if it was produced, filmed and aired, it's canon. Even Caravan of Courage.
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Old September 9 2012, 01:44 AM   #82
Set Harth
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Gaith wrote: View Post
Besides, if anything, Lucas' seeming intent was that the twins' mother was alive for several years after they were born.

(And we all know how that turned out.)
So... rape?

Gaith wrote:
Zahn's novels, which overall mesh far better with the OT than the PT does.
Don't tell me - Obi-Wan owned lots of droids!
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Last edited by Set Harth; September 9 2012 at 03:10 AM.
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Old September 9 2012, 04:24 AM   #83
I am not Spock
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Call me a sucker, but I still want to see a proper DVD/Blu Ray release of the Droids and Ewoks cartoons! They released cobbled together, three episode, things on DVD around the time Episode III was released in theatres. They're hard to find in stores now, although they're still floating around on Amazon (although I'm in region 4, and would need a multi region player to view them). And will they ever release the 2003 Clone Wars series on Blu Ray?
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Old September 9 2012, 04:37 AM   #84
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

I would also love to see the whole Droids and Ewoks series. I don't think I've ever watched any episodes of them.
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Old September 9 2012, 07:28 AM   #85
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

For all its faults, and despite being utterly bizarre, "The Faithful Wookiee" (a.k.a. the Boba Fett cartoon from the infamous Star Wars Holiday Special) is a must-see classic.
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Old September 9 2012, 08:41 AM   #86
Drago-Kazov
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Hartzilla:And these franchise would be?
Halo or Star Trek. Its not official in Trek but we had not seen anything blatantly contradicting previous Abramsverse stuf.
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Old September 9 2012, 02:40 PM   #87
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
Hartzilla:And these franchise would be?
Halo or Star Trek. Its not official in Trek but we had not seen anything blatantly contradicting previous Abramsverse stuf.
Halo: Reach contradicts the novel Halo: The Fall of Reach with I believe it being said somewhere that the games supersede the books and if you are referring to the comics are canon statement thats been walked back on so not on the Abramsverse and any show made in the Primeverse unlikely as it is to be made is under no obligation to follow the novels.

Plus there has only been one Abrams movie and most of the comic series have been set after it so we really won't know if its contradicted until the new film and even then the comics are being set up in a way to not step on the new movie's toes not the other way around

as for the other stuff before or during the film aka Countdown and Nero, Countdown doesn't seem to sync up with Spock Prime's recounting of the destruction of Romulus as he didn't seem to know Nero that well in the film whereas in Countdown he spent a good amount of time with him plus the comic has been declared non-canon, and Nero is pretty much ignored as its based on deleted scenes.

Last edited by Hartzilla2007; September 9 2012 at 03:14 PM.
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Old September 11 2012, 03:18 PM   #88
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Oh, I think the reason that Clone Wars is being moved to Saturdays is so it can run back to back with Green Lantern: The Animated Series which is also apparently coming back on the 29th.
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Old September 11 2012, 11:56 PM   #89
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

There was no rape in the conception of Luke and Leia.

I liked Nero Countdown a lot. As much as I liked the Star Trek movie, the reason given for Nero's rage at the Vulcans is ONE THOUSAND TIMES better and more logical (no pun intended) in the comic than it is in the movie.
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Old September 12 2012, 11:06 AM   #90
Drago-Kazov
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Re: Star Wars The Clone Wars Season Five News and Discussion

Halo: Reach contradicts the novel Halo: The Fall of Reach with I believe it being said somewhere that the games supersede the books and if you are referring to the comics are canon statement thats been walked back on so not on the Abramsverse and any show made in the Primeverse unlikely as it is to be made is under no obligation to follow the novels.
The novels are probably a lower level canon then the movies just like in SW. That has it contradictions and retcons too.

We wil see how trek will go so far i have plenty of reasons to be optimistic.
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