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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Fallen Gods.
Outstanding 1 1.15%
Above Average 13 14.94%
Average 40 45.98%
Below Average 23 26.44%
Poor 10 11.49%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 2 2012, 12:01 AM   #256
star trek
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
Well, I'm finally getting around to posting my review of this. Spoilers ahead.

-Vale needs to grow up or get out. She was worse in StF, but she still seems much much too immature to be an XO. This really doesn't make sense to me, because she didn't seem this way in the A Time To... series.
My thoughts exactly. Tuvok should be the XO.
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Old September 3 2012, 07:58 PM   #257
MNM
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sci wrote: View Post
To say that Destiny and The Never-Ending Sacrifice were the last quality Trek novels is to speak in ignorance of such excellent novels as:
  • Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by David R. George III
  • Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by David R. George III
  • Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts of Empire by David R. George III
  • Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game by David Mack
  • Mirror Universe: The Sorrows of Empire by David Mack (expanded edition)
  • Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack
  • Voyager: Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer
It's all opinions though isnt it? I've read all those books you mention and in my opinion only Zero Sum Game and the two mirror books even come close to "excellent" and even then I wouldnt put Zero Sum on that rank.

So really, just because you disagree, doesnt mean the person you quoted is "ignorant" of any books because he doesnt rank them as greatly as you do.
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Old September 3 2012, 08:30 PM   #258
Paper Moon
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

MNM wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
To say that Destiny and The Never-Ending Sacrifice were the last quality Trek novels is to speak in ignorance of such excellent novels as:
  • Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by David R. George III
  • Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by David R. George III
  • Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts of Empire by David R. George III
  • Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game by David Mack
  • Mirror Universe: The Sorrows of Empire by David Mack (expanded edition)
  • Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack
  • Voyager: Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer
It's all opinions though isnt it? I've read all those books you mention and in my opinion only Zero Sum Game and the two mirror books even come close to "excellent" and even then I wouldnt put Zero Sum on that rank.

So really, just because you disagree, doesnt mean the person you quoted is "ignorant" of any books because he doesnt rank them as greatly as you do.
Seems to me that Trek novels can be of "quality" without being excellent. All the novels Sci listed were good, if not great, novels, that pass a certain benchmark required to say that a book is of "quality."

As I said, I would replace Zero Sum Game with Paths of Disharmony or Children of the Storm, myself, but they are all of real quality. (Especially when compared to a lot of older Trek novels. Badlands miniseries and TNG Dominion War novels: I'm looking at you.)

And star trek: excellent idea. Totally agree.
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Old September 4 2012, 10:03 AM   #259
Csalem
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Finished this recently. Average book. Hate the way White-Blue has been treated as I thought when he was introduced a few books back that he was going to make a great addition to the ship.
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Old September 4 2012, 09:57 PM   #260
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ I can't say I'm fond of White-Blue, or many of the other Titan crew members. I don't think it's that I prefer more humanoid crew (I don't like Tuvok or Ra Havraii, but I do like Torvig), it's just that they don't do anything for me...
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Old September 7 2012, 10:21 AM   #261
Sxottlan
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Still in the middle of reading this, but there's already plenty that's aggravating about it. We have briefing after conference after meeting after get-together after pow-wow between the characters after seemingly every little plot development. I recall Seize the Fire had a similar problem: the crew had something like three meetings in that book before they took action on anything.

Then there's the distraction of the editorial errors: Vale stands up twice on the same page during her talk with Riker and Troi early in the book. Then we get two different Andorians at ops later when their brethren arrive.

And now I'm at the part with Pava beaming to the Andorian ship. Are we sure this ship isn't from the distant past? Because it seems these Andorians are extremely quick to fall back into old habits. "Pinkskin?" Seriously?



The historian's note says this story takes place two weeks after Andor's secession. Two weeks! And they're already acting like your stereotypical enemy with a ship more powerful than a Luna-class starship? And isn't Titan farther out than two weeks at high warp? Does this strike anyone else as kind of absurd?
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Last edited by Sxottlan; September 8 2012 at 04:37 AM.
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Old September 7 2012, 03:31 PM   #262
chelly
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I noticed that they were using words that were from the Archer days. I read it and I can't really say if I liked it or hated it. I want to see what developes in the next book. But I can't really say if I am going to re read it.

So if I understand this the Andorians somehow figured out how to duplicate people from the transporter. I thought the Tom/Will thing was a fluke (I thought that was a stupid plot and I hated it). What would be the point of doing that? Also how did the Andorians know where the Titan was etc.

I wish the titan books would focus on other characters. It seems that the books only focus on the humans or aliens we are familiar with. I want more of the dinosaur doctor. ( I know not right species but I am too lazy to look it up).
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Old September 8 2012, 02:25 AM   #263
tomswift2002
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

With the transporter thing, if the Andorians can duplicate people, why all the fuss over the reproductive issue? Just duplicate every Andorian a couple of times.
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Old September 8 2012, 05:44 AM   #264
Paper Moon
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
With the transporter thing, if the Andorians can duplicate people, why all the fuss over the reproductive issue? Just duplicate every Andorian a couple of times.
A couple of reasons:

A) Until recently, this technology wasn't practical nor reliable. It was only a recent innovation (I believe involving the Heisenberg compensators [which actually does make Treknological sense, sorta]) that allowed the Andorians to do this.

B) You don't think this plan might have big deal, long-term ethical and practical ramifications, particularly if implemented on a large scale? To say nothing of the potential genetic problems that might result.
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Old September 8 2012, 09:15 PM   #265
Reanok
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I finished reading Fallen gods a few days ago.I liked the storyline for the Andorians but I think some upcoming will have to deal the supring twist of what happened to the Andorian crewmembers from the Titan at the end this novel being continued in another typhon pact novel or Titan novel.With the Andorian/Tholian alliance things are getting more dangerous for the fedartion and Starfleet.
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Old September 9 2012, 04:30 AM   #266
tomswift2002
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Paper Moon wrote: View Post

A couple of reasons:

A) Until recently, this technology wasn't practical nor reliable. It was only a recent innovation (I believe involving the Heisenberg compensators [which actually does make Treknological sense, sorta]) that allowed the Andorians to do this.

B) You don't think this plan might have big deal, long-term ethical and practical ramifications, particularly if implemented on a large scale? To say nothing of the potential genetic problems that might result.

You're forgetting that a similar accident occurred in "The Enemy Within" and Spock was able to duplicate the accident and reverse engineer it.
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Old September 9 2012, 04:50 AM   #267
Paper Moon
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Paper Moon wrote: View Post

A couple of reasons:

A) Until recently, this technology wasn't practical nor reliable. It was only a recent innovation (I believe involving the Heisenberg compensators [which actually does make Treknological sense, sorta]) that allowed the Andorians to do this.

B) You don't think this plan might have big deal, long-term ethical and practical ramifications, particularly if implemented on a large scale? To say nothing of the potential genetic problems that might result.

You're forgetting that a similar accident occurred in "The Enemy Within" and Spock was able to duplicate the accident and reverse engineer it.
Yeah, but there was a key difference: one Kirk was evil and the other was good. Not practical nor reliable.
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Old September 9 2012, 06:37 AM   #268
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Yeah, "The Enemy Within" Kirks were two halves of a whole, while the Will/Tom Riker type transporter duplicates are straight clones. It's got to a lot easier to combine 2 halves than two equal wholes.
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Old September 11 2012, 01:25 AM   #269
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Trek Movie has posted a positive review of the book.
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Old September 11 2012, 02:05 PM   #270
Enterpriserules
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I feel like we must have read different books!
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