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Old September 6 2012, 06:12 PM   #31
Sci
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

-Brett- wrote: View Post
If the Federation is a democracy, as we all assume, then Starfleet and it's exploration programs are bound to wind up the subject of popular vote sooner or later. Not hard to imagine the average voter blaming Starfleet for exposing them to the Borg, Dominion and whatever else. The Federation could very well swing toward a more isolationist mindset. Hence, the absence from the delta quadrant in the 31st+ centuries.
The problem with this scenario is that it relies on the assumption that the Federation electorate is stupid and irrational.
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Old September 7 2012, 05:35 PM   #32
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Sci wrote: View Post

The problem with this scenario is that it relies on the assumption that the Federation electorate is stupid and irrational.
Every eloctorate ever has been so...
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Old September 8 2012, 01:50 AM   #33
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

NrobbieC wrote: View Post
Daniels only said he wasn't a member of Starfleet. It's most likely he's from the future DTI so that makes sense.
I know it's not canon, but I think one of the ST: DTI novels mentioned or at least alluded to Daniels being a DTI agent. I'm not positive, I'd have to go look.
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Old September 8 2012, 01:52 AM   #34
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

FordSVT wrote: View Post
NrobbieC wrote: View Post
Daniels only said he wasn't a member of Starfleet. It's most likely he's from the future DTI so that makes sense.
I know it's not canon, but I think one of the ST: DTI novels mentioned or at least alluded to Daniels being a DTI agent. I'm not positive, I'd have to go look.
He gets called a temporal agent in the series so it makes sense.
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Old September 8 2012, 12:09 PM   #35
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Watching the Clock. Although it's a group descended from the DTI, not the DTI itself. I can't remember if we were ever told their 31st century name, but by the 29th century, policing of the timeline is done by a Starfleet subsiduary called the Temporal Integrity Commission. Daniels wasn't a part of Starfleet, so things have changed again in the intervening 200 years (thats even IF the 29th and 31st century time cops represent the same version of the future. A line in Watching the Clock suggested that they weren't entirely sure themselves.
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Old September 8 2012, 04:03 PM   #36
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

MNM wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

The problem with this scenario is that it relies on the assumption that the Federation electorate is stupid and irrational.
Every eloctorate ever has been so...
The fundamental premise of Star Trek is that society has changed, that people have rejected irrationality and ignorance.
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Old September 8 2012, 04:34 PM   #37
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Watching the Clock. Although it's a group descended from the DTI, not the DTI itself. I can't remember if we were ever told their 31st century name, but by the 29th century, policing of the timeline is done by a Starfleet subsiduary called the Temporal Integrity Commission. Daniels wasn't a part of Starfleet, so things have changed again in the intervening 200 years (thats even IF the 29th and 31st century time cops represent the same version of the future. A line in Watching the Clock suggested that they weren't entirely sure themselves.
Wasn't it suggested the 31st century temporal agents were a civilian group, which Ducane disapproved of.
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Old September 8 2012, 06:42 PM   #38
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Sci wrote: View Post
MNM wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

The problem with this scenario is that it relies on the assumption that the Federation electorate is stupid and irrational.
Every eloctorate ever has been so...
The fundamental premise of Star Trek is that society has changed, that people have rejected irrationality and ignorance.
I know... but if you look at how Trek on TV was handled... the writers simply re-created early 21st century in the late 24th.
They were steering clear of such idiocy while Roddenberry was still alive, but after he was gone, it was downhill from there.
In voyager's episode 'Pathfinder' they had secretaries and numerous other stupidities that are directly related to our century and the socio-economic system WE live in (while the Trek one as Roddenberry pushed was given minor nods and eventually pushed to the side).
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Old September 8 2012, 07:10 PM   #39
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

We'll we have the Federation Timeship Relativity active in the 29th Century.
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Old September 8 2012, 07:17 PM   #40
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Deks wrote: View Post
.In voyager's episode 'Pathfinder' they had secretaries and numerous other stupidities that are directly related to our century and the socio-economic system WE live in ...
I take it you're referring to Nicole, Admiral Paris's assistant (or secretary), you honestly think a Starfleet Admiral isn't going to have a staff? Nicole likely managed the Admiral appointments and kept him on schedule.

They were steering clear of such idiocy while Roddenberry was still alive, but after he was gone, it was downhill from there.
Roddenberry was the one who gave both Captain Pike and Kirk a yeoman, a yeoman is basically a secretary.

But you were saying.

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Old September 8 2012, 07:52 PM   #41
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Trek I read a really fun article in Best of Trek #2 (published 1977) called "The Fall of the Federation", by Phillip Carpenter, which postulated the Federation splintering and imploding by the year 8000 after the galaxy had been fully explored and tensions arose about how the Federation should treat hostile species. It was written in a style similar to the Encyclopedia Galactica in Asimov's Foundation.

There was mention of extra-galactic colonies, which upon learning of the Federation's fall, were forced to develop their own independent societies. They became lengend in the former Federation worlds in the Milky Way, known as the Missing Settlements.

That story really captured my imagination.
That is interesting. I would think a confederacy might be next.
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Old September 9 2012, 06:44 PM   #42
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

I always thought that Daniels said he worked for the Federation, but this whole thread has put me into doubt.

The Department of Temporial Investigations book was mentioned, and I gotta say I enjoyed that book very much, and I enjoyed the new interpretation of the Temporial Cold War and how two factions are Federation (29th Century and 31st Century) but they don't agree on how things should be done (I guess 31st Century agents don't directly take things into their own hands and just try to get indigenous people prevent the temporial damage while the 29th Century takes a more active role, going as far as making temporial clones of people by trying over and over).

Empires do rise and fall, but if the Romulan Empire and Klingon Empire can sustain for so long then I don't find it hard to believe that the Federation can survive for at least a thousand years.

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Old September 11 2012, 04:04 AM   #43
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Sci wrote: View Post
-Brett- wrote: View Post
If the Federation is a democracy, as we all assume, then Starfleet and it's exploration programs are bound to wind up the subject of popular vote sooner or later. Not hard to imagine the average voter blaming Starfleet for exposing them to the Borg, Dominion and whatever else. The Federation could very well swing toward a more isolationist mindset. Hence, the absence from the delta quadrant in the 31st+ centuries.
The problem with this scenario is that it relies on the assumption that the Federation electorate is stupid and irrational.
Or 51% of them, anyway.

Stupid and irrational are traits that seem to be abundant in the Federation. Just about everyone whose name isn't on the opening credits possesses at least one of them. Gotta make the main characters look good, after all.
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Old September 12 2012, 10:25 PM   #44
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Hando wrote: View Post
In "Living Witness", or at least those parts set in the future - in the 31st and ?33rd century - we see a planet in the Delta Quadrant that had no contact with the Federation since Voyager left. The lack of any Federation presence seem a bit strange to me
Perhaps this planet simply doesn't want to be in the Federation. They have that right.

Or, OTOH, the constant squabbling of the Kyrians vs. Vaskans would have disqualified them for membership, anyway (the Federation requires a one-world government). In the closing scenes, when the two groups are at peace, then they'd be eligible, assuming they have achieved political unity.

In any case, it's a huge galaxy. There's room for many different federations. As for *the* Federation, I find it very likely that they will exist for centuries, even millennia.
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Old September 12 2012, 11:03 PM   #45
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Hando wrote: View Post
In "Living Witness", or at least those parts set in the future - in the 31st and ?33rd century - we see a planet in the Delta Quadrant that had no contact with the Federation since Voyager left. The lack of any Federation presence seem a bit strange to me
Perhaps this planet simply doesn't want to be in the Federation. They have that right.

Or, OTOH, the constant squabbling of the Kyrians vs. Vaskans would have disqualified them for membership, anyway (the Federation requires a one-world government). In the closing scenes, when the two groups are at peace, then they'd be eligible, assuming they have achieved political unity.

In any case, it's a huge galaxy. There's room for many different federations. As for *the* Federation, I find it very likely that they will exist for centuries, even millennia.
Ehm, the episode clearly shows that they have a skewed view of Voyager. And they needed the Doctor to correct them. If they made contact with the UFP (Federation)/ or UFP with them, the false notion would have been corrected. Also, the Doctor would not need to start a long track home, he could just call the nearest outpost or ship and get a lift to Earth.
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