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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 6 2012, 06:10 PM   #46
BillJ
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Re: I want Data back...

Sci wrote: View Post
I want Data to stay dead. Period.
I wanted Kirk, Spock, Janeway and Tucker to stay dead as well. Can't always get what we want...
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Old September 6 2012, 06:17 PM   #47
Sci
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Re: I want Data back...

BillJ wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
I want Data to stay dead. Period.
I wanted Kirk, Spock, Janeway and Tucker to stay dead as well. Can't always get what we want...
Yeah, but we're not discussing what will happen, we're discussing what we want to happen. And I want Data to stay dead.
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Old September 6 2012, 07:52 PM   #48
datalogan
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Re: I want Data back...

I would prefer for Data to stay dead.

But what I would like to see is for Maddox or someone to perfect regular positronic brain technology. Then we could have the great novel writers handle the topic of artificial lifeforms. I'm sure they'll do better than the show writers from 2+ decades ago.

How do these new beings get their rights? How do they integrate into society without lossing their individuality? How would they choose to live? Who would control the "birth" of new androids as they were made? How would this affect holographic rights, etc?

So, maybe a new android character, like Data. But at his/her beginning, so we can see their struggles to understand and integrate into society from the beginning. (Of course, if this was done in a realistic manner then such a being probably wouldn't be serving on any of our Starfleet ships or bases for at least 5 years in-universe. It would take time to learn and get into Starfleet, etc. Unless they "data-dump" Data's memories of Starfleet and call it good.)

It's time for the issue of artificial beings to be really dealt with in Star Trek, not just alloded to or touched on like they did with Data or the Doctor or Vic Fontaine or the alien AIs in recent Titan novels.
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Old September 6 2012, 08:26 PM   #49
NrobbieC
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Re: I want Data back...

I've always wondered that about holograms - they've been seen to achieve sentience but can also be created as sentient. So would there be a law against creating self-aware holograms or a law against creating holograms altogether to avoid the risk of accidentally creating sentient life forms or the view that creating less developed holograms is a form of oppression...
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Old September 6 2012, 08:38 PM   #50
Saul
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Re: I want Data back...

Christopher wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Well being Data's an android you could get by with rebuilding him concievably, especially considering you have at least one copy of his entire memory.
Although the catch there is that memory isn't personality. Data has all of Lal's memories, but who she was as a person didn't survive in him. Consciousness is more than just information, it's a dynamic process running within a neural network. So just dumping Data's memories into a blank android body wouldn't give you Data, any more than dumping them into B-4 did. If it could be done, there'd have to be something more going on. And what you got as an end result might not be exactly Data, so much as a new individual that remembered what Data had known and experienced. The question is whether that would be close enough.
That's a very good point. Memory alone wouldn't be enough but while reading that I thought of other examples where similar things were done. With Zoe in Caprica and Arnold Rimmer in Red Dwarf. Definitely Zoe was different and growing more so. Rimmer retained his life essence though as supposedly his personality, skills and memory was copied.
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Old September 6 2012, 09:09 PM   #51
Christopher
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Re: I want Data back...

^Well, obviously there's no one set of rules that applies equally to all SF universes, except the rule that they can make up whatever rules suit their purposes. They're free to contradict each other -- or reality -- all they want, but a given fictional universe should be consistent with its own precedents. So the only examples that matter are the ones that come from the specific fictional universe you're talking about. And the precedent of Lal shows that in the Trek universe, downloading one positronic brain's memories into another positronic brain will not automatically bring the personality along with it. And what we've seen of B-4 to date -- at least onscreen and in the novel continuity -- is consistent with that precedent.
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Old September 6 2012, 09:31 PM   #52
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Re: I want Data back...

Christopher wrote: View Post
And the precedent of Lal shows that in the Trek universe, downloading one positronic brain's memories into another positronic brain will not automatically bring the personality along with it. And what we've seen of B-4 to date -- at least onscreen and in the novel continuity -- is consistent with that precedent.
We really don't know. I'm sure Data didn't put Lal's programming in an area that would conflict with his own.
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Old September 6 2012, 10:00 PM   #53
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Re: I want Data back...

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
It seems STO can't even keep it's tie-ins straight.
No, it's a shock reveal, showing us that what some characters believed in "The Needs of the Many" was not the entire story.

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Old September 6 2012, 10:25 PM   #54
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: I want Data back...

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
It seems STO can't even keep it's tie-ins straight.
No, it's a shock reveal, showing us that what some characters believed in "The Needs of the Many" was not the entire story.

I kinda like the sound of that. The interview format of TNoTM does leave quite a bit of wiggle room.

What you mention in the spoiler could have taken place after the interview, even.
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Old September 7 2012, 02:23 AM   #55
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Re: I want Data back...

I too think Data should stay dead. That's not to say I don't want to read new books with Data in them, but not in the "present" of the Lit-verse.
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Old September 7 2012, 12:42 PM   #56
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Re: I want Data back...

An unpopular opinion, but if Data's resurrection was part of a story that "undid" all the recent post-Nemesis TNG stuff, I'd be all for it!!
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Old September 7 2012, 01:54 PM   #57
JarodRussell
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Re: I want Data back...

Data is alive and well in the Abramstrek prequel comic.
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Old September 7 2012, 02:09 PM   #58
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Re: I want Data back...

Trek Survivor wrote: View Post
An unpopular opinion, but if Data's resurrection was part of a story that "undid" all the recent post-Nemesis TNG stuff, I'd be all for it!!
BLASPHEMY! Burn him at the stake!
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Old September 7 2012, 05:19 PM   #59
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Re: I want Data back...

Sci wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
I want Data to stay dead. Period.
I wanted Kirk, Spock, Janeway and Tucker to stay dead as well. Can't always get what we want...
Yeah, but we're not discussing what will happen, we're discussing what we want to happen. And I want Data to stay dead.
I must say...I agree.

So many characters have been resurrected, death seems only a vacation for star trek characters these days. As comics can attest to, this is not a good thing.
Once in a while, if the writers decide for a character to die, they should deal with the aftermath of this event instead of opting for fantasy wish-fulfillment.
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Old September 7 2012, 06:33 PM   #60
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Re: I want Data back...

ryan123450 wrote: View Post
Trek Survivor wrote: View Post
An unpopular opinion, but if Data's resurrection was part of a story that "undid" all the recent post-Nemesis TNG stuff, I'd be all for it!!
BLASPHEMY! Burn him at the stake!
After he's been peeled and rolled in salt...
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