I want Data back...

[Hartzilla2007]

BillJ wrote:

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You must've missed all those Jim Kirk in the 24th Century books that Pocket started churning out in the mid-late 90's.

All of which are in their own little universe that have very little to do with the regular lit verse except for references within them to characters from it that are also included in this universe, Much how STO is separate from the regular lit verse.

And the fact that Spock died in the 2280's, yet still has adventures well into the 24th century. Wasn't Spock even on the cover of a book with Sisko not so long ago?

And yet in 2387 he will get sucked into a black hole and end up in an alternate 2258, but from the point of view of the prime verse characters will have appeared to have died.

[BillJ]

Hartzilla2007 wrote:

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All of which are in their own little universe that have very little to do with the regular lit verse except for references within them to characters from it that are also included in this universe, Much how STO is separate from the regular lit verse.

But they still sold books with him on the cover and I don't remember any cover disclaimers that these books really don't count. They brought him back to sell books.

[Hartzilla2007]

BillJ wrote:

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But they still sold books with him on the cover and I don't remember any cover disclaimers that these books really don't count. They brought him back to sell books.

Technically none of the books actually count what with the whole not canon thing, but you notice that non of the authors have acknowledged any of the events from the 24th century set Shatner novels right which generally means he's not alive their.

And its pretty much a given that the Shatnerverse is its own thing separate from the main line of novels.

[Christopher]

Right. It's not about "counting." All these stories are equally unreal. They're not study materials for a test where you have to get the right answers; they're works of entertainment. As long as you enjoy them, it doesn't matter if they fit together. There are different continuities in play, though, and what happens in one isn't binding on the others. The Shatner novels were pretty much separate from the main novels because they were aimed at a somewhat distinct audience, and because nobody was going to tell William Shatner he couldn't do what he wanted because some no-name novelist had done something different.

So in the Shatnerverse, Kirk was resurrected and Janeway never died; while in the main novel continuity, Kirk was never resurrected and Janeway did die. Among other discrepancies, like when Bajor joined the Federation and when Titan finished its business at Romulus and began its exploratory mission.

[Therin of Andor]

Sho wrote:

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I think to resurrect Data you do need to first build a new body. B-4 is important because he may have backup of Data's sensory input logs.

Just check out Christine Thompson's first short story in "Star Trek Magazine".

B-4 and Captain Data both exist as separate entities, so fans assuming that the Data personality permanently overran B-4, some time before "Countdown", were incorrect.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=176575

[Sho]

I'm not sure I understand, because I've read neither that story nor Countdown. I'm not saying that Data overwrote B-4 when he uploaded his memories, that's actually rather inconsistent with what I wrote. Or is your point that that short story suggests that a Soong android can house two neural nets at the same time?

[Christopher]

^What Therin means is that the most popular fan conjecture for how Data could be resurrected -- which is a common interpretation of what was alluded to in Countdown, as well as being independently used in a Strange New Worlds story -- is simply that Data's memories inside B-4 were fully retrieved and B-4 thus became Data. He's not referring to your position, but to the widespread fan assumption in general.

[Hartzilla2007]

Christopher wrote:

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So in the Shatnerverse, Kirk was resurrected and Janeway never died; while in the main novel continuity, Kirk was never resurrected and Janeway did die. Among other discrepancies, like when Bajor joined the Federation and when Titan finished its business at Romulus and began its exploratory mission.

Plus I'm pretty sure T'Lana is still a member of the Enterprise-E's crew in the Shatnerverse.

[FreddyE]

I think a good idea to have Data return might be to have it connected to the "great bloom". May be instead of ripping him appart, he was pulled thru the anomaly right during its creation. And since Data can pretty much exist in space indefenitly...he could still be floating around there on the other side of the anomaly somewhere. Maybe he deactivated himself while he waits for resuce or something.

[Hartzilla2007]

FreddyE wrote:

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I think a good idea to have Data return might be to have it connected to the "great bloom". May be instead of ripping him appart, he was pulled thru the anomaly right during its creation. And since Data can pretty much exist in space indefenitly...he could still be floating around there on the other side of the anomaly somewhere. Maybe he deactivated himself while he waits for resuce or something.

The other end of the anomaly is the Magenelic Cloud specifically an area that may or may not even exist anymore or at the very least was devastated and said anomaly has been closed off.

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

Therin of Andor wrote:

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Just check out Christine Thompson's first short story in "Star Trek Magazine".

B-4 and Captain Data both exist as separate entities, so fans assuming that the Data personality permanently overran B-4, some time before "Countdown", were incorrect.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=176575

Huh? That directly contradicts The Needs of the Many, where...

Data's downloaded "Data Matrix" does overwrite B-4, although the situation and the way it plays out are far different to the assumptions of unjust murder mentioned above.

It seems STO can't even keep it's tie-ins straight.

[NrobbieC]

I would've thought Data's memories, which would theoretically be 100% of everything Data has experienced and possibly including his thoughts, would have simply overwhelmed B-4's primitive whatchacallit creating some kind of android multiple personality disorder until one is successful. Personally I like the idea of B-4 sacrificing himself so Data can live.

Death should be permanent every now and then though, otherwise why mourn? There should be more deaths like Tasha's, a main character should be just as vulnerable as any other.

[Christopher]

KingDaniel wrote:

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It seems STO can't even keep it's tie-ins straight.

I don't see it as any different from the situation with early tie-in novels like Ghost Ship for TNG. Tie-ins written before the debut of the things they're tying into have a tendency to be best guesses, and one shouldn't really expect them to be authoritative sources.

There's also the fact that TNotM was written by a freelance novelist for Pocket, someone whose knowledge of the STO universe was secondhand (and necessarily limited since the game was still in development when he wrote the book), whereas the stories in the magazine are by the actual head writer for STO itself.

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

I think whether Data comes back or not comes down to whether the Trek novels are going to tie-in to Countdown (NOT Star Trek Online's timeline of events, although that includes Countdown too) or not. Several hints have been dropped so far, such as:

+Picard being offered the role of Ambassador (Paths of Disharmony)

+Spock becoming a legal resident of Romulus in 2382 (Rough Beasts of Empire)

+The use of holographic control consoles (Titan: Synthesis)

...and a few others which escape me at the moment. They're by no means definitive proof of anyhing, but it would seem the writers were told or chose to leave that possibility open. What remaining contradictions between the novelverse and CD can be easily glossed over ("Oh look, they rebuilt Shi'Kahr!") or ignored (the obvious botch of a Vulcan Praetor) should that path be chosen.

[Sci]

I want Data to stay dead. Period.