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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate The Eternal Tide.
Outstanding 83 49.70%
Above Average 50 29.94%
Average 27 16.17%
Below Average 2 1.20%
Poor 5 2.99%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 4 2012, 12:26 AM   #211
Stoek
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I cried when Optimus Prime died.

Oh so many years ago, watching the animated Transformers The Movie, I cried. Optimus Prime was noble, and wise, and just, and patient and kind. Everything that to my young mind a leader and hero should be. So when he lost his life in battle to the treachery of the evil Megatron, I was shocked and horrified and appalled. And I cried.

A few years later in a trio of episodes he was resurrected briefly to perform one last heroic act before dying again. I was thrilled at his return and a little angry and heartbroken that he didn't get to stay not dead.

This was neither the beginning nor the end of my close emotional ties with certain fictional characters.

Spock. Joyce Summers. Old Yeller. Tara. The Green Lantern Corps. Jason Todd. To name just a few.

Sometimes it's easy to become insulated. To view what is important to oneself as IMPORTANT and to view what is unimportant to oneself as ... *shrug*.

I was guilty of that regarding the death of Kathryn Janeway. Frankly after watching Voyager I didn't much care for her. Seeing her make choices that came off to me as high handed and dictatorial did nothing to endear her to me. I wasn't terribly interested in what happened to her post TV run. When she appeared and then died in Before Dishonor I largely shrugged. And when the "Bring Back Janeway" crowd started vocally protesting the fate of the character well honestly I was bored and just wanted them to shut up already.

At the same time I didn't really have anything invested in her staying dead either. I truly just did not care one way or the other.

Comes the time for the next Voyager novel and I learn just moments before buying it that apparently Janeway was going to be resurrected. Now there might be circumstances under which I would have serious reservations about picking up the next book. But not in this case. It's all because of Buffy's sister.

I can hear those of you reading this saying with one voice... "Huh?" So I'll explain.

During the summer prior to the fifth season of Buffy The Vampire Slayer, it was announced that the season would prominently feature Buffy's sister Dawn. Who would be revealed to have always existed. Despite the fact that Buffy was firmly established as an Only Child, in the four seasons previous. I was livid. I proclaimed it the stupidest thing ever etc. And then came the time for the new season and I watched riveted and loved every bit of it. Joss and company made the whole thing work and work brilliantly.

It was from that season of Buffy that I learned an important lesson that has stuck with me to this day. When a creative person has proven themselves to you, trust them. Just shut your mouth, reserve judgment and give them room to show you where they want to take you. Then when the ride is over you can decide if you are going to continue to give them your trust.

With the prior Voyager novel Ms. Beyer earned my trust. She proved that she understood with a kind of passion and depth that not all do, what makes Star Trek so unique. So I waded in to The Eternal Tide.

I loved it. I loved seeing Seven and Hugh begin their relationship. I loved seeing how the fleet was finding it's footing as a working unit. I loved how assumptions I'd made about the details of Before Dishonor were shown to be wrong, and the truth made so much more sense. I loved getting to know more about Afsarah Eden and her history. I loved seeing Hugh and The Doctor snipe at each other. I loved an Internet meme coming out of the mouth of the only Trek character that it could have come from and not seemed forced. And to my shock and surprise, I loved the return of Janeway. I loved how her death was not undone, and how nothing that the characters have gone through in the last months has been made any less meaningful.

By the time the book was nearing its climax I was caught up completely. I was amazed and afraid. And when Junior gave his life to save the Multiverse, I cried.

Janeway's back. And she's back in a way that feels meaningful. There has been no "reset" button used here. (Compare this book to Year Of Hell which while it has some great moments is rendered almost meaningless by undoing everything at the last minute) Whatever happens next the characters are going to be dealing with the repercussions of their choices for some time to come. And I strongly suspect that some of those repercussions are going to be unexpected to us all.

If Ms. Beyer is permitted to write the next book however what will not be unexpected to me is how much I will enjoy it.

Peace and Long Life
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Old September 4 2012, 01:17 AM   #212
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I was at the bookstore, saw Janeway on the cover, flipped to the back read that Janeway and Chuckles were in bed together, shuddered and put it back on the shelf.
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Old September 4 2012, 02:11 AM   #213
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

While I'm not a fan of always finding a way to bring a character back from the great beyond, I did give this an 'outstanding' grade because there was enough here for me to give it such a high grade. Like someone several posts back noted, I would have liked more time to get to know these new crews, especially Bal Itak & Regina Farkas, two captains with a LOT of years in the center seat. Also was warming to Eden, the mysteriousness of her character was fun.

Despite that I always love a story where Q is involved. Not just Q, but Q, q, & Q. It was cool to have Amanda & Kes make an appearance. I like how the story played out, showing an softer side of Q I've not seen. The emotions Chakotay had seeing Katheryn back was a great moment, I've always Chakotay. I was briefly concerned that Chakotay was going to be another victim of this chapter of Treklits' latest murderous rampage.

Gotta cut this short (see avatar for reason) but I really enjoyed the book & hope there will be more Voyager to come.
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Old September 4 2012, 06:16 AM   #214
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

BillJ wrote: View Post
I was at the bookstore, saw Janeway on the cover, flipped to the back read that Janeway and Chuckles were in bed together, shuddered and put it back on the shelf.
A Janeway-Chakotay relationship makes as much sense as a Picard-Crusher one, IMHO.
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Old September 4 2012, 06:59 AM   #215
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

BillJ wrote: View Post
I was at the bookstore, saw Janeway on the cover, flipped to the back read that Janeway and Chuckles were in bed together, shuddered and put it back on the shelf.
Hey if this ardent J/7'er can choke it down anyone can.
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Old September 4 2012, 07:20 AM   #216
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Stoek wrote: View Post
I loved it. I loved seeing Seven and Hugh begin their relationship. I loved seeing how the fleet was finding it's footing as a working unit. I loved how assumptions I'd made about the details of Before Dishonor were shown to be wrong, and the truth made so much more sense. I loved getting to know more about Afsarah Eden and her history. I loved seeing Hugh and The Doctor snipe at each other. I loved an Internet meme coming out of the mouth of the only Trek character that it could have come from and not seemed forced. And to my shock and surprise, I loved the return of Janeway. I loved how her death was not undone, and how nothing that the characters have gone through in the last months has been made any less meaningful.
Which Internet meme from the mouth of which character?
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Old September 4 2012, 08:17 AM   #217
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
Stoek wrote: View Post
I loved it. I loved seeing Seven and Hugh begin their relationship. I loved seeing how the fleet was finding it's footing as a working unit. I loved how assumptions I'd made about the details of Before Dishonor were shown to be wrong, and the truth made so much more sense. I loved getting to know more about Afsarah Eden and her history. I loved seeing Hugh and The Doctor snipe at each other. I loved an Internet meme coming out of the mouth of the only Trek character that it could have come from and not seemed forced. And to my shock and surprise, I loved the return of Janeway. I loved how her death was not undone, and how nothing that the characters have gone through in the last months has been made any less meaningful.
Which Internet meme from the mouth of which character?
When Tom tells Harry "Just sit there in your wrongness and be wrong."
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Old September 4 2012, 11:09 AM   #218
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I was at the bookstore, saw Janeway on the cover, flipped to the back read that Janeway and Chuckles were in bed together, shuddered and put it back on the shelf.
A Janeway-Chakotay relationship makes as much sense as a Picard-Crusher one, IMHO.
Both make me shudder...
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Old September 4 2012, 11:30 AM   #219
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Wow, you just don't want people to be happy.
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Old September 4 2012, 12:29 PM   #220
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I had been waiting for this book since it was first mentioned. I enjoyed Ms. Beyer's last books and was hoping this would continue that trend. However when I finally sat down to start reading it, I was disappointed on page one. I have never liked books that involve Q let alone many of them. It gets confusing at times when you have multiple Qs talking and it says "says Q", "Q said" or "exclaimed Q " and they are referring to 3 different ones. Who said What? I like to picture the scene in my head and this just does not work for me.

Another thing that bothered me was Janeway being brought back. Now, I have no problem with her, its just that the way she was brought back and the reason she was brought back really did not make sense. She was sent to that time for a reason but I did not see what she really contributed to the solution. If all it took was for Eden and Junior to go into Omega together, then what was she needed for. Data being found in the wreckage of the Schimitar seems more plausible then this.
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Old September 4 2012, 01:06 PM   #221
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

teacake wrote: View Post
Wow, you just don't want people to be happy.
Just more interested in exploring the universe than reading about people in bed together. If I want the latter, I'll just watch Glee with my daughter.

I'm not here saying its the wrong path for Voyager, it's just the wrong path for me.
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Old September 4 2012, 06:49 PM   #222
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I personally could not be happier with a Star Trek book or return of a character. I loved this.
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Old September 4 2012, 11:05 PM   #223
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

BillJ wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Wow, you just don't want people to be happy.
Just more interested in exploring the universe than reading about people in bed together. If I want the latter, I'll just watch Glee with my daughter.

I'm not here saying its the wrong path for Voyager, it's just the wrong path for me.
Well, frankly it bores the crap out of me. But I've never been a romance person. The only romance in the books I liked they split up (Ezri and Julian). But I think the babies are even worse than the weirdly teenage romances they write for starfleet officers.
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Old September 5 2012, 01:24 AM   #224
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I didn't mind the resurrection. It was done well(tm) I'd say.

Starfleet really has to be banging their heads against the wall about losing all those ships, especially after the Azura Nebula incident. Two Vesta-class ships gone. Yikes. To me, that felt more contrived (setting Voyager 'alone' in the Delta Quadrant again) than returning Janeway back, for some reason.
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Old September 5 2012, 01:31 AM   #225
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I was disappointed about Janeway returning. They used her death to propel these characters forward in the 1st 2 books and then they bring her back it just took me out of the series. I will not be returning for the 5th book.
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