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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old September 3 2012, 05:01 PM   #256
Edit_XYZ
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Ancient aliens - and other similar ideas.
Any remotely objective investigation shows that their existence is ridiculously improbable.

Why? Because the only way to assert their existence is to posit a great many ridiculously improbable assumptions in order to squeeze them into observed facts: ~we can't see them, but they exist and hide/are incredibly good at hiding to the point of being above natural law.

For example - UFOs or big foot always stay just beyond the range where the increasing numbers of cameras can take clear pictures of them (in the past, when the cameras were less performant, they used to come a lot closer). Aren't they lucky?

Or - Ancient monuments were built with the knowledge and means of our ancestors (we even know how).
But wait - aliens did the heavy lifting and managed to leave no verifiable - credible - account of their existence. The ancients knew nothing and had nothing above their level of knowledge and technology.
I guess that, beyond building a LOT of monuments for the locals - just because - they were tight-lipped, etc.
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Old September 3 2012, 11:45 PM   #257
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The Castellan wrote: View Post
And personally, I'd love to get an autographed copy of Van Daniken's books.
I'm personally offended that ancient aliens helped the pharaohs build their tombs but won't help me with my FTL spaceship.

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Old September 4 2012, 01:37 AM   #258
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The Castellan wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
"Ancient Aliens" is an historically and scientifically ignorant hypothesis, and the world would be a better place if there were some way to prosecute the people who promulgate it in the media.
May I congratulate you, sir, for you have one of the most closed minds I have the misfortune of interacting with. You have the same mentality as those who smeared both Galileo and Copornicus.



You're entirely wrong, of course. My only error with regard to this "ancient aliens" horseshit is to have, as Robert Heinlein once put it, "fallen into the fatal folly of reading."

There is no science in these hypotheses. There are no facts as such, simply ridiculous speculations based upon misrepresentations of facts presented without their real context in the confidence on the part of the presenters that their audience is composed of rubes, boobs and suckers. There's not a first-rate intellect anywhere in the field of hucksters, charlatans and delusional nutjobs who manage to keep this foolishness alive - generally as an alternative to any of them doing honest work for their livings.
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Old September 4 2012, 01:47 AM   #259
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Re: Ancient Aliens

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
their audience is composed of rubes, boobs and suckers.
Well, and sci fi writers looking for ideas to rip off and do better....
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Old September 4 2012, 01:51 AM   #260
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Ancient Alien theory is the same brand of drivel as intelligent design. A lack of curiosity about the universe leading people to say "a wizard did it".

It also denigrates everything our ancestors accomplished. Human beings aren't clever, it says. Everything cultured about us comes from outer space. It vastly underestimates what the human race is capable of, and makes massive assumptions.

As a humanist, I see it as no less than a slight against the ancient cultures of the world.
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Old September 4 2012, 01:51 AM   #261
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Re: Ancient Aliens

It would be hard for a science fiction writer to make a living if his or her imagination was as superficial and stunted as the likes of Von Daniken.
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Old September 4 2012, 02:46 AM   #262
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
So, where does Atlantis fit into all this? Wouldn't some pre-cataclysmic advanced human civilization be more likely a helper of primitive cultures than some some wondering star travelers we've never met before or since?
How would it be any more believable than alien visitation?
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Thus the rare visits of 'gods' like Kukulkan, Krishna, Jesus, Buddha and other advanced society changing great minds of the past.
Well, judging from cave painting, statues and so on, many of them were not human looking either. I am not saying it's not the case, but I don't see how that reason is more acceptible than an actual ET visitation.
Easy. Ancient human civilizations are proven to exist. Aliens aren't. Therefore, it's far less of a leap to postulate an advanced human civilization than an advanced alien one.


And how come we can't do something folks did many thousands of years ago? There's no real scroll, tablet or anything that tells how they did it. And them going, "Let's build something as difficult as possible....and with mere copper tools and so on". I myself really want to know how stones 100's of tons in size were cut, moved, lifted and fitted so precisely.

They were not idiots, you know.
You've answered your own question. They weren't idiots. They were smart people. So give them credit for knowing how to do something you don't. Without having to get help from little green men.
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Old September 4 2012, 05:58 AM   #263
The Castellan
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Re: Ancient Aliens

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
The Castellan wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
"Ancient Aliens" is an historically and scientifically ignorant hypothesis, and the world would be a better place if there were some way to prosecute the people who promulgate it in the media.
May I congratulate you, sir, for you have one of the most closed minds I have the misfortune of interacting with. You have the same mentality as those who smeared both Galileo and Copornicus.



You're entirely wrong, of course. My only error with regard to this "ancient aliens" horseshit is to have, as Robert Heinlein once put it, "fallen into the fatal folly of reading."

There is no science in these hypotheses. There are no facts as such, simply ridiculous speculations based upon misrepresentations of facts presented without their real context in the confidence on the part of the presenters that their audience is composed of rubes, boobs and suckers. There's not a first-rate intellect anywhere in the field of hucksters, charlatans and delusional nutjobs who manage to keep this foolishness alive - generally as an alternative to any of them doing honest work for their livings.
And someone saying a person like Van Daniken outta be arrested and prosecuted.....that's sorta like shit telling vomit it stinks, because you don't have any credibility to me if you're the type saying arrest each and every one of them.

The authorities that arrested Galileo without even looking at his information and notes probably thought he was not doing any 'honest work' either.

Hell, there's folks who refuse to believe the Sphinx could be at least twice as old than thought to be, despite water eroison all over it and its enclosure. Double it that it looks nothing like Chephren, I see the face of what I think is a black woman. My own theory of the Sphinx was that Chephren, if he had anything to do with the Sphinx, was that he repaired it, and not built it. If the statue of Ramsis could be made so perfectly, and yet the Sphinx looking nothing like the man mainstream explaination says it's suppossed to represent....something's not right.

Oh, and if stuff like Van Daniken's books, Richard Hoagland's research, Coast to Coast AM (which is a very high rated late night talk show, and I'm seeing new affliates appearing all the time) and so on are such boobs and charlatans, why is there stuff talked off offten, in a positive manner ( I know, that probably shocks, offends and shames you) and why are more people openly talking about it....not to mention over 50% of Americans believe in intelligent alien life, over 75% in Russia....if it's all foolishness? You might think all these folks are the n word of the scientific community (my old chemisty teacher on college even said anyone thinking outside the box was the n word of scientists...though he said the entire word. And yet...for such a 'respectible' guy, he had the lowest attendence reocrd for students staying with him. Big surprise. )

Remember, the Wright Brothers were flying for several years and people still said they never flew.


You've answered your own question. They weren't idiots. They were smart people. So give them credit for knowing how to do something you don't. Without having to get help from little green men
Give me some proof as how they did it, 100% proof, especially if they had only copper tools and primative stuff to work with, yet with perfect prescision. And who were their 'gods'? Myth and Legends have some root of truth to them somewhere.

And considering the weird things in the sky that can move at high speeds, make L turns and stop on a dime and all that stuff tells me something's up.

Plus the fact we got primative people who did these things that we are only learning or able to do recently, tells me that, be it either some technologically advanced people or aliens were at it, and that contemporary history needs to be looked at very carefully. Especially seeing as how, for example the hyroglyphs on obolisks are so perfect, and clean and repeated perfectly as if a machine did the work.
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Old September 4 2012, 06:31 AM   #264
sojourner
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Re: Ancient Aliens

You know, I was going to pick apart your entire post. Instead I'm just gonna go with a blanket "post proof or retract" on everything you said. Saves me time.

BTW, the end of the mayan calendar is only a few months off, shouldn't you be prepping somewhere?
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Old September 4 2012, 07:36 AM   #265
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Ancient Aliens and such are fun to watch...to me, it's like reading far-fetched fiction.

It's the same with other alien stuff; you have the "Grays" and the "Reptilians" and all sorts of far-fetched stuff presented as fact but seem to me to come out of people's nightmares or something.

As for Hoagland, if he's the one who says that there are structures on the Moon that the astronauts saw but are hiding from the rest of us, he's a nutjob. Utterly.
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Old September 4 2012, 07:36 AM   #266
The Castellan
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Re: Ancient Aliens

sojourner wrote: View Post
You know, I was going to pick apart your entire post. Instead I'm just gonna go with a blanket "post proof or retract" on everything you said. Saves me time.

BTW, the end of the mayan calendar is only a few months off, shouldn't you be prepping somewhere?
What do I need to prep for? World's not going to end. To me what the Mayan calander means.....though I dunno why I bother saying it, since you'll just find something to pick apart that you can't prove, but I believe it's more of a beginning than an end, that it's going to be like a catalyst or a tigger. Pretty much my signature, if you care to read about it, that is. I'd offer you some ideas about it, but the results will probably be just some pictures with cheesy, lol factor, captions, or some sorta comparison to some actor in silly make up, or Legion wanting to see certain folks get arrested or something, ya know? Open mindedness, from what I see, if something some Trekkies prefer not to relish....as if they already did not have stuff against them already, sota ironic in a way, but aw well.
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Old September 4 2012, 07:40 AM   #267
Silvercrest
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The Castellan wrote: View Post
why are more people openly talking about it....not to mention over 50% of Americans believe in intelligent alien life, over 75% in Russia....if it's all foolishness?
Because there are a lot of fools?

Plus the fact we got primative people who did these things that we are only learning or able to do recently, tells me that, be it either some technologically advanced people or aliens were at it
Well, which is it?

Give me some proof as how they did it, 100% proof, especially if they had only copper tools and primative stuff to work with, yet with perfect prescision.
This is just restating "I DON'T KNOW, THEREFORE ALIENS."

Look, Horatio, there are more things between heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. And the answer is far more likely there. But you'll never see it if your philosophy excludes earth entirely and insists on focusing somewhere beyond the heavens.
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Old September 4 2012, 07:52 AM   #268
iguana_tonante
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Re: Ancient Aliens

You are not open-minded. You are gullible. You believe what fulfills your fantasy; reality be damned. You have built such a complex narrative around your fantasy, and it has become so important to you, that you refuse to acknowledge it might be just that: fantasy.

The litmus test of intellectual honesty is this: if aliens show up tomorrow and show us pictures they built the pyramids or whatever, we would change our mind and recognize we were wrong; but if we wouldn't find anyone in a billion years, you'll keep harping that aliens did all the cool stuff, and hide around in your backyard at night.

Also, learn to spell.
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Old September 4 2012, 08:01 AM   #269
Deckerd
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Re: Ancient Aliens

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post

Also, learn to spell.
Damn you're harsh.
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Old September 4 2012, 08:06 AM   #270
iguana_tonante
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Re: Ancient Aliens

I have no mercy or pity for the orthographically challenged.

Also, it's patently false that anicent aliens built the meholithic structure in Veitnam with monosodium glutimate. It was the primative persons of the Terren Empire with the help of Copornicus.
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