Why the lack of personal protection?

[Timo]

I'd think a device designed to contain air would be very good at resisting gradual, evenly spread pressure, even fairly high pressure. Not so good at resisting sharp piercing pressure...

Whether the belts do zip against phasers in "Beyond" is somewhat debatable. People being shot at are all in considerable pain, it seems - which is the aim of the creature controlling the phasers (or whatever those beams are). But Kirk resists the beams just as well after removing the belt, if not better.

..Yes, the animation is again wildly inconsistent on whether Kirk has his belt on or not. But he makes a great show of removing it and placing it on the control console, in an apparent gesture of surrender, so we are supposed to believe he indeed ceases to wear a belt at that point. And the yellow glow around him at beam impacts is probably due to the beam, rather than the belt...

Timo Saloniemi

[CorporalCaptain]

Timo wrote:

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I'd think a device designed to contain air would be very good at resisting gradual, evenly spread pressure, even fairly high pressure. Not so good at resisting sharp piercing pressure...

Whether the belts do zip against phasers in "Beyond" is somewhat debatable. People being shot at are all in considerable pain, it seems - which is the aim of the creature controlling the phasers (or whatever those beams are). But Kirk resists the beams just as well after removing the belt, if not better.

..Yes, the animation is again wildly inconsistent on whether Kirk has his belt on or not. But he makes a great show of removing it and placing it on the control console, in an apparent gesture of surrender, so we are supposed to believe he indeed ceases to wear a belt at that point. And the yellow glow around him at beam impacts is probably due to the beam, rather than the belt...

Timo Saloniemi

He's put one hand on the belt that he left on the console to short it out, so I'd say the yellow glow is from the belt.

[Go Go L]

I think for the most part, the uniforms were fine. You wouldn't want to meet "explorers" visiting earth for the first time wearing armor. When going into battle, then they need to be much better equiped like TMP. It'd be a pain to wear armor all the time like the Klingons, and probably send the wrong message unless it was discreet and effective.

[Brainsucker]

Well, protection is one thing, but wearing T-shirt, trousers, and office shoes on an away mission or war is just... (see DS9)

In a diplomatic mission, it is acceptable if they wears the usual uniform plus hand gun for self protection though.

[Timo]

It's very seldom that a landing party really expects to get into a firefight, though.

And being armored against an unexpected attack isn't really worth it: if somebody really bothers to ambush a Starfleet landing party, they'll be sure to prepare well enough that the attack will succeed, quite regardless of whether our heroes beam down in t-shirts or in a main battle tank. The true defense of a landing party is its ability to posthumously vaporize a continent... Nobody really dares attack even a naked Starfleet officer when knowing that this will cost him his entire civilization.

So that basically leaves just two scenarios where donning heavy armor makes any sense:

1) the landing party will engage in an infantry attack
2) the landing party will face savages who have no idea who they are up against - which means they will attack with things like spears, axes and sharpened avocados, as higher tech would imply knowledge of opposition

And the first scenario might never take place. Perhaps there exists no infantry action in the Trek universe? We never see it happen, after all: the closest we come is a desperate impromptu defense of an installation by a stranded starship crew against forces from a similarly downed enemy vessel, in "Siege of AR-558" and "The Ship".

Whether light body armor or forcefield belts/harnesses are a good idea in the second scenario... Difficult to say. The already discussed futuristic riot shields of ST5:TFF might be the more usual approach. But it seems that whenever our TOS heroes deliberately engage savage natives, they do so in the course of a mission where they try to hide their outer space origin and nature. Any protection would have to be of a concealable type, then, akin to the tiny Type 1 phasers.

Timo Saloniemi

[Crazy Eddie]

Brainsucker wrote:

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Well, protection is one thing, but wearing T-shirt, trousers, and office shoes on an away mission or war is just... (see DS9)

In a diplomatic mission, it is acceptable if they wears the usual uniform plus hand gun for self protection though.

In early TOS and again in the movies, away teams beamed down with field jackets and equipment packs. Tad more realistic that way (at least, for peacetime).

[Timo]

I'm not sure I see the "realism" of wearing a jacket. I mean, it's just a specific shape of clothing, traditional to a certain culture; what they normally wear could be just as functional in every respect. It's not even as if the jackets would cover bits that aren't otherwise covered (except in the case of those cold weather costumes from ENT and VOY, which at least have proper hoods - Saavik and David Marcus sure could have used those in ST3!).

Timo Saloniemi

[CorporalCaptain]

I doubt that Mr. Hendorff would have objected to another layer of clothing at the very least.

[Crazy Eddie]

Timo wrote:

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I'm not sure I see the "realism" of wearing a jacket. I mean, it's just a specific shape of clothing, traditional to a certain culture

It's actually become sort of universal among the armed forces of the world, especially forces that expect to fight in cold climates. Even the Chinese navy wear jackets in the winter.

[Timo]

...I'm including all of Earth's sub-cultures here, really. No reason for other humanoids to wear clothing of that particular shape.

Although the older styles of traditional fighting garb really differed quite a bit from the Star Trek style hip- or waist-length jacket. Ankle-length cold weather protection has been far more common (and effective!) overall, and hot weather protection varies wildly before the era of global standardization - chiefly driven by whimsical reasons of commercial or even popular culture origin (gotta look American!).

The main and original objection I have is to the continuation of layered clothing in any culture for the Trek 23rd century, though. It seems too low-tech, in a context where high tech would probably be passive and reliable and in every sense preferable to low tech.

Timo Saloniemi

[Crazy Eddie]

Timo wrote:

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...I'm including all of Earth's sub-cultures here, really. No reason for other humanoids to wear clothing of that particular shape.

Form follows function. Vulcan science officers may be partial to catsuits, but their special forces people wear jackets just like everyone else. So do the Andorians, as it happens.

The main and original objection I have is to the continuation of layered clothing in any culture for the Trek 23rd century, though. It seems too low-tech, in a context where high tech would probably be passive and reliable and in every sense preferable to low tech.

Except that the high tech solution is subject to random plot devices that render it somehow useless. Imagine if your personal forcefield was designed to also provide thermal insulation in cold weather, but suddenly rendered inoperable by some sort of [tech] field on the planet surface. In that case, it's just an excuse not to wear a jacket so you can have a really bad "OMG It's freezing down here!" subplot.

More to the point: along with an extra layer of clothing comes an extra layer of POCKETS. It's easy to underestimate how much difference a few extra pockets can make.

[Timo]

Vulcan science officers may be partial to catsuits, but their special forces people wear jackets just like everyone else. So do the Andorians, as it happens.

And that's the thing I find so unrealistic. But it's something I have to live with, even if it's not sufficiently futuristic to my tastes.

Except that the high tech solution is subject to random plot devices that render it somehow useless.

Which is another highly unrealistic aspect of Trek. In reality, it's more typical for high tech render low tech useless (say, through the use of armor that cannot be pierced by primitive weapons ).

More to the point: along with an extra layer of clothing comes an extra layer of POCKETS.

...Making the lower layer inaccessible.

In any case, the TNG uniforms appear capable of sprouting pockets wherever and whenever needed. Yeah, the quasi-polatronic jammatron beam of the Weirdomites might neutralize that technology, making Torres drop her hammer on her toes at an awkward moment - but somehow I don't see the Trek writers bothering.

Timo Saloniemi

[Crazy Eddie]

Timo wrote:

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Which is another highly unrealistic aspect of Trek. In reality, it's more typical for high tech render low tech useless (say, through the use of armor that cannot be pierced by primitive weapons ).

Yep.

...Making the lower layer inaccessible.

I could only hope so.

In any case, the TNG uniforms appear capable of sprouting pockets wherever and whenever needed. Yeah, the quasi-polatronic jammatron beam of the Weirdomites might neutralize that technology, making Torres drop her hammer on her toes at an awkward moment - but somehow I don't see the Trek writers bothering.

Then it is probably fortunate that Voyager did not attempt to stretch into an eighth season.

[Timo]

...But the problem would have disappeared by then, as the level of 24th century technology would have kept on dropping steadily, until the ship was flying on rocket thrust, replicators worked by microwaving preprepared meals, and the only way to carry a hammer would have been to sling it on a loose-fitting tool vest / jacket combo...

Timo Saloniemi

[Crazy Eddie]

You never actually WATCHED Voyager, did you?