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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old August 29 2012, 05:34 AM   #46
RB_Kandy
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

Billj wrote:
Well if they're all white, Christian males, there'd be little to differentiate one from another.
Because all white people look a like? Or is it because all christian men act a like?

Actually, something I want to point out is the fallacy that sci fi aliens automatically possess originality or charisma. I've found most Star Trek aliens to be boring. They were humans with bumpy foreheads.

But moving away from Star Trek, even Farscape had all these aliens which were just so human. You had Ka D'Argo which is basically just a tough guy with a chip on his shoulder.
You had Pilot, which seems like a cross of all the Hollywood computer nerds. And reminds me of the fat blond computer geek girl on NCSI or one of those cop dramas.
You had Aeryn Sun, which was all the tough dominatrix white girls in leather cliché She was a little bit Xena, little bit Buffy, little bit Faith (from Buffy), little bit Trinity from the matrix, little bit Dark Angel. She was just a carbon copy of a carbon copy. She was literally the tough dominatrix chick cliché.
John Crichton, the only human on that show, was the only interesting character, because he had character. Everyone else had a characteristic, but they had no character.
Too many times in sci fi they make an alien character, who acts like some human archetype, and aside from the visual appeal, there is nothing to them.
Wait, Scorpius was also interesting. He reminded me of a cross between Spock and Mumra from Thundercats.

Romulus Prime wrote:
A non-human captain.

And does the Captain always have to be the main character? Why not have a series that focuses on the 1st officer and how they go from 2nd in command to captain - what a potential for a story arc with that concept.
A non-human captain would serve no story telling purpose. Again, that whole thing about putting actors in costumes and giving them bumpy heads, and then having them act 100% human, being a waist of costume.

There is a reason that the captains tend to hog the show. The show is ultimately about decision making. In a strict hierarchy, the captain of the ship has all the decision making powers. Lower ranking officers have less ability to make a decision, thus it is hard to build a show around them.


'"Bry_Sinclair " wrote:
Mars wrote:
How about a Cyborg? (Doesn't have to be a Borg)
It can't be another Borg. The Borg are an overused and now dreadfully dull species. Another species who utilise cybernetic devices would be interesting, having to face Borgophobia from other crewmembers. Also you could have a normal human officer who was horrendously injured during the war and is now more machine than (wo)man.
Umm, I think you're thinking about robo-cop.
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Old August 29 2012, 06:33 PM   #47
T'Girl
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

'"Bry_Sinclair " wrote:
... and is now more machine than (wo)man.
Obi-wan Kenobi: "He's more machine now than (wo)man, twisted and evil.

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Old August 29 2012, 10:14 PM   #48
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

RB_Kandy wrote: View Post
Billj wrote:
Well if they're all white, Christian males, there'd be little to differentiate one from another.
Because all white people look a like? Or is it because all christian men act a like?

Actually, something I want to point out is the fallacy that sci fi aliens automatically possess originality or charisma. I've found most Star Trek aliens to be boring. They were humans with bumpy foreheads.

But moving away from Star Trek, even Farscape had all these aliens which were just so human. You had Ka D'Argo which is basically just a tough guy with a chip on his shoulder.
You had Pilot, which seems like a cross of all the Hollywood computer nerds. And reminds me of the fat blond computer geek girl on NCSI or one of those cop dramas.
You had Aeryn Sun, which was all the tough dominatrix white girls in leather cliché She was a little bit Xena, little bit Buffy, little bit Faith (from Buffy), little bit Trinity from the matrix, little bit Dark Angel. She was just a carbon copy of a carbon copy. She was literally the tough dominatrix chick cliché.
John Crichton, the only human on that show, was the only interesting character, because he had character. Everyone else had a characteristic, but they had no character.
Too many times in sci fi they make an alien character, who acts like some human archetype, and aside from the visual appeal, there is nothing to them.
Wait, Scorpius was also interesting. He reminded me of a cross between Spock and Mumra from Thundercats.

Romulus Prime wrote:
A non-human captain.

And does the Captain always have to be the main character? Why not have a series that focuses on the 1st officer and how they go from 2nd in command to captain - what a potential for a story arc with that concept.
A non-human captain would serve no story telling purpose. Again, that whole thing about putting actors in costumes and giving them bumpy heads, and then having them act 100% human, being a waist of costume.

There is a reason that the captains tend to hog the show. The show is ultimately about decision making. In a strict hierarchy, the captain of the ship has all the decision making powers. Lower ranking officers have less ability to make a decision, thus it is hard to build a show around them.


'"Bry_Sinclair " wrote:
Mars wrote:
How about a Cyborg? (Doesn't have to be a Borg)
It can't be another Borg. The Borg are an overused and now dreadfully dull species. Another species who utilise cybernetic devices would be interesting, having to face Borgophobia from other crewmembers. Also you could have a normal human officer who was horrendously injured during the war and is now more machine than (wo)man.
Umm, I think you're thinking about robo-cop.
Actually Geordi LaForge was a cyborg, he had a removable visor that connected to implants in his head, technically he is a Cyborg, even with his much improved eyes he wears in the movies, that little incident in Star Trek Generations was the last straw apparently, so he got fully implanted artificial eyes so the Federation doesn't lose another Galaxy class starship.
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Old August 30 2012, 10:17 AM   #49
CommanderRaytas
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

RB_Kandy wrote: View Post
A non-human captain would serve no story telling purpose. Again, that whole thing about putting actors in costumes and giving them bumpy heads, and then having them act 100% human, being a waist of costume.
A waste of costume? Sure, if you don't make being an alien part of the character. An integral part of Spock's character was that he was half human and half Vulcan. Are you truly going to contest that this basically defined him, and that (starting in TOS) it propelled the plot forward several times?

Good characterisation is working the person's species, ethnicity, personal experience etc etc into the story...you know, to have him/her react in a unique way in any given situations, interact with others convincingly etc.

Great potential, being wasted by your dismissal of this concept.

And no, not all white Christian males act alike, but mixing things up a bit would make everything so much more interesting! Sometimes, a different way to view the world and life and people is all it takes to break the routine.

Needless to say, I'm all for it.

Oh, and please less puerile romance and more diversity concerning sexual orientation and gender identity.

That's one thing that ST has been lacking: true diversity. Basically everyone is a white, straight American. Kick up the dust a little and make people real, three-dimensional and interesting. They need to write characters we can emotionally relate to.
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Old August 30 2012, 12:44 PM   #50
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

CommanderRaytas wrote: View Post
That's one thing that ST has been lacking: true diversity. Basically everyone is a white, straight American. Kick up the dust a little and make people real, three-dimensional and interesting. They need to write characters we can emotionally relate to.
ENT is a prime example of this. They had a very English English officer, a 'cowardly' Asian officer, and a token black guy. The resident Vulcan seemed very emotional at times and her dispassionate Vulcan-look was a moody pout.

Trek already has a baseline for viewership (how many of us out there would watch a new Trek series, simply because it was Star Trek: 'Something'?), so they don't have to play it so safe. By taking risks with characters and stories they may even attract new viewers (or win back some old ones) by doing proper story telling with compelling characters that we care about.
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Old August 30 2012, 07:30 PM   #51
NrobbieC
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

Hi Bry_Sinclair I'd say you hit the nail on the head there.
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Old August 30 2012, 07:38 PM   #52
Temis the Vorta
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

Star Trek can't depend on the we'll-watch-anything-called-Trek crowd for its survival. if that were the case, it wouldn't have been canceled.

But we don't have to worry aout overly-safe approaches in the future, because no space opera can survive on broadcast anymore. Even cheaper and more accessible types of sci fi struggle.

The next show will be on cable or streaming, where the assumptions are different, and the white bread broadcast approach is passé. The next series has to compete for an audience that has seen Breaking Bad and nuBSG.

Not that those shows are poster children for demographic diversity, but what will make or break a new show is being daring in other ways, and by daring I mean just coming up to the modern baseline that the audience expects.
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Old August 31 2012, 12:38 AM   #53
Romulus Prime
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

RB_Kandy wrote: View Post
Romulus Prime wrote:
A non-human captain.

And does the Captain always have to be the main character? Why not have a series that focuses on the 1st officer and how they go from 2nd in command to captain - what a potential for a story arc with that concept.
A non-human captain would serve no story telling purpose. Again, that whole thing about putting actors in costumes and giving them bumpy heads, and then having them act 100% human, being a waist of costume.
I'll just re-quote myself:


There's plenty that can be done. Just take a look back at the movie and show Alien Nation. One main character is human, the other main is alien. You actually get the perspectives of both AND learn about how similar or different "George Fransisco's" family and species are in contrast to humans. Another example - Delenn from Babylon 5 is (arguably) a main character in Season 1, and during this time, we get her alien perspective on events which take place.


The concept of an alien captain can certainly go wrong, but only if the writers follow your assumption that they are just humans in weird make up...



And yes, it certainly CAN serve a storytelling purpose, in fact, it's one of the primary themes of every Star Trek adventure - learning to interact with and respect others, despite or because of differences.



There is a reason that the captains tend to hog the show. The show is ultimately about decision making. In a strict hierarchy, the captain of the ship has all the decision making powers. Lower ranking officers have less ability to make a decision, thus it is hard to build a show around them.
Wow, what a limited vision.


Luke Skywalker - Star Wars
Maverick - Top Gun
Rand Al Thor - Wheel of Time
Rick Hunter - ROBOTECH


What most of these characters have in common is that they don't start out as the boss, i.e. they take orders from someone or several people above them, learn more about who they are and what they can do, then eventually they come into their own and end up as the ones who call the shots. They also have lives outside of the primary adventure, and deal with aspects of their personal lives or "side quests" which run parallel to it.

I'm sorry you think that a main character has to be a Captain or primary group leader in order to be interesting or have the ability to make important decisions in order for a story to be successful or interesting. Fortunately, the guys I mentioned didn't get that memo...

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Old August 31 2012, 02:35 AM   #54
Mars
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

How about a series that focuses on a low ranking midshipman, and an aloof distant captain on a very large starship? Seems to me we can focus on the travails of the midshipman, if the episode is written from the perspective of inside the ship, instead of the next alien encounter or landing party. The midshipman goes about his daily routine and must deal with an interesting array of crew, and only occasionally gets out on a landing party. Each episode would be written similar to a Battlestar Galactica episode, which focused primarily on in fleet happenings and an occasional cylon encounter when it matters.

Romulus Prime wrote: View Post
RB_Kandy wrote: View Post
Romulus Prime wrote:
A non-human captain.

And does the Captain always have to be the main character? Why not have a series that focuses on the 1st officer and how they go from 2nd in command to captain - what a potential for a story arc with that concept.
A non-human captain would serve no story telling purpose. Again, that whole thing about putting actors in costumes and giving them bumpy heads, and then having them act 100% human, being a waist of costume.
I'll just re-quote myself:


There's plenty that can be done. Just take a look back at the movie and show Alien Nation. One main character is human, the other main is alien. You actually get the perspectives of both AND learn about how similar or different "George Fransisco's" family and species are in contrast to humans. Another example - Delenn from Babylon 5 is (arguably) a main character in Season 1, and during this time, we get her alien perspective on events which take place.


The concept of an alien captain can certainly go wrong, but only if the writers follow your assumption that they are just humans in weird make up...



And yes, it certainly CAN serve a storytelling purpose, in fact, it's one of the primary themes of every Star Trek adventure - learning to interact with and respect others, despite or because of differences.



There is a reason that the captains tend to hog the show. The show is ultimately about decision making. In a strict hierarchy, the captain of the ship has all the decision making powers. Lower ranking officers have less ability to make a decision, thus it is hard to build a show around them.
Wow, what a limited vision.


Luke Skywalker - Star Wars
Maverick - Top Gun
Rand Al Thor - Wheel of Time
Rick Hunter - ROBOTECH


What most of these characters have in common is that they don't start out as the boss, i.e. they take orders from someone or several people above them, learn more about who they are and what they can do, then eventually they come into their own and end up as the ones who call the shots. They also have lives outside of the primary adventure, and deal with aspects of their personal lives or "side quests" which run parallel to it.

I'm sorry you think that a main character has to be a Captain or primary group leader in order to be interesting or have the ability to make important decisions in order for a story to be successful or interesting. Fortunately, the guys I mentioned didn't get that memo...

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Old September 1 2012, 08:47 PM   #55
T'Girl
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

Mars wrote: View Post
Actually Geordi LaForge was a cyborg
Picard too, owing to his artificial heart.

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Old September 3 2012, 07:49 AM   #56
Overbound
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

Data as Captain.
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Old September 3 2012, 09:54 AM   #57
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

Overbound wrote: View Post
Data as Captain.
Data is dead.
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Old September 3 2012, 12:43 PM   #58
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Overbound wrote: View Post
Data as Captain.
Data is dead.
So was Spock. Death is not a road block to career advancement in the Star Trek universe.
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Old September 3 2012, 01:52 PM   #59
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

BillJ wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Overbound wrote: View Post
Data as Captain.
Data is dead.
So was Spock. Death is not a road block to career advancement in the Star Trek universe.
So true. But Spock's body was recovered and regenerated on the Genesis Planet. Data was blown into dust. He is dead and gone, and no weak-assed memory transfer plot twist will change that.
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Old September 3 2012, 03:35 PM   #60
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Re: What do want to see from a new series

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Data is dead.
So was Spock. Death is not a road block to career advancement in the Star Trek universe.
So true. But Spock's body was recovered and regenerated on the Genesis Planet. Data was blown into dust. He is dead and gone, and no weak-assed memory transfer plot twist will change that.
Transferring a program from one computer to another is far more likely to work than what Spock went through.
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