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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate The Eternal Tide.
Outstanding 82 49.40%
Above Average 50 30.12%
Average 27 16.27%
Below Average 2 1.20%
Poor 5 3.01%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 3 2012, 04:00 AM   #196
Jedi_Master
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Two points that I have made seem to have stirred up an admittedly small hornets nest.

First that writing Janeway into a story is a better idea than writing in a new character.

Second that having myriads of secondary characters that have small back stories can be tiresome to some readers, and those secondary characters do not drive sales.

Seeing as this is a review thread I will try to make this post relevant.

First -- Janeway is deep, interesting character. There are still a LOT of stories that can be told about her. For Gorn's sake, they still write stories about SPOCK! And the stories are still awesome. Janeway is not my favorite character, but seeing as I can picture her in my mind, hear her speak, and there are hundreds of previous stories for an author to pull character cues from I would rather read about her than a newly created secondary character.

Second. Obviously I "speak for myself" that I buy books to keep up with the main characters introduced by the TV shows and movies. I find it very, very hard to believe that the majority of those who purchase Treklit would by a book that had not one canonical character. The most successful Treklit books are ones that feature and thoroughly integrate canonical characters. That is why they are called "tie - ins".
There have been some awesome secondary characters created by various Trek authors... but c'mon folks, we like the canon characters. We eagerly anticipate reading about their adventures. We get excited when an author "nails" the way a canon character acts and thinks and speaks.

That's why Janeway gets the cover, and Cambridge gets some pages.
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Old September 3 2012, 04:06 AM   #197
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

The inclusion of Amanda Rogers and her untimely death was the only sour note for me.

Of course I don't know too many people that had been chanting "Bring back Amanda Rogers!"

My thought process on her characters story arc was:

"Cool! I forgot about her - I guess she would be close to Junior"

"Oh! She's dead! That was weird, but I am sure she will come back"

After book was finished:

"Heyyyy, she did not bring back Amanda. That sucks."
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Old September 3 2012, 04:16 AM   #198
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Dude, put it all in one post next time. Triple posting like this is generally frowned upon.

I liked the inclusion of Amanda, though her death was a major "WTF!?" moment for me. I was also hoping she'd come back, as the Continuum could probably use her help right now. But it made sense to me, as she was kind of in between Q Junior and Eden. Like Q Junior, she was the daughter of Qs, but like Eden, she was the daughter of mortals as well.
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Old September 3 2012, 06:11 AM   #199
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Jedi_Master wrote: View Post
Second. Obviously I "speak for myself" that I buy books to keep up with the main characters introduced by the TV shows and movies. I find it very, very hard to believe that the majority of those who purchase Treklit would by a book that had not one canonical character. The most successful Treklit books are ones that feature and thoroughly integrate canonical characters. That is why they are called "tie - ins".
There have been some awesome secondary characters created by various Trek authors... but c'mon folks, we like the canon characters. We eagerly anticipate reading about their adventures. We get excited when an author "nails" the way a canon character acts and thinks and speaks.

That's why Janeway gets the cover, and Cambridge gets some pages.
I've got to disagree with you here. I have found the majority of the book characters just as interesting as the TV characters. I read the TNG Relaunch just as much for Chen and Choudhury as I do for Picard and Worf. And honestly, I probably read Vanguard more for it's original characters than I do for it's movie and TV characters. Most of it's main characters were created specifically for it, and they played a much bigger role in it than any of the TV/movie characters did. And I'm pretty sure I've heard others on here say the same or similar things.
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Old September 3 2012, 08:04 AM   #200
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JD wrote: View Post
Jedi_Master wrote: View Post
Second. Obviously I "speak for myself" that I buy books to keep up with the main characters introduced by the TV shows and movies. I find it very, very hard to believe that the majority of those who purchase Treklit would by a book that had not one canonical character. The most successful Treklit books are ones that feature and thoroughly integrate canonical characters. That is why they are called "tie - ins".
There have been some awesome secondary characters created by various Trek authors... but c'mon folks, we like the canon characters. We eagerly anticipate reading about their adventures. We get excited when an author "nails" the way a canon character acts and thinks and speaks.

That's why Janeway gets the cover, and Cambridge gets some pages.
I've got to disagree with you here. I have found the majority of the book characters just as interesting as the TV characters. I read the TNG Relaunch just as much for Chen and Choudhury as I do for Picard and Worf. And honestly, I probably read Vanguard more for it's original characters than I do for it's movie and TV characters. Most of it's main characters were created specifically for it, and they played a much bigger role in it than any of the TV/movie characters did. And I'm pretty sure I've heard others on here say the same or similar things.
Agreed.
And this is still my biggest, and probably only, problem with Beyer's Voyager novels. She really only deals with the main characters, and only a few of them have any real development. I mean, this is the third book since Torres and Paris got back together again, and he's still going on about how he can't believe his life has turned out so great and that 10 years earlier he could hever have believed to be in such a place in his life right now.
And I get that that's a special place, but let's have something more for this guy already.
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Old September 3 2012, 08:22 AM   #201
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Jedi_Master wrote: View Post
Second. Obviously I "speak for myself" that I buy books to keep up with the main characters introduced by the TV shows and movies. I find it very, very hard to believe that the majority of those who purchase Treklit would by a book that had not one canonical character.
It would completely depend on the author. There are a couple authors I will read anything by but others, no.
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Old September 3 2012, 04:09 PM   #202
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Mage wrote: View Post
Agreed.
And this is still my biggest, and probably only, problem with Beyer's Voyager novels. She really only deals with the main characters, and only a few of them have any real development. I mean, this is the third book since Torres and Paris got back together again, and he's still going on about how he can't believe his life has turned out so great and that 10 years earlier he could hever have believed to be in such a place in his life right now.
And I get that that's a special place, but let's have something more for this guy already.
See, with original characters I can often take them or leave them. With the ent-e characters, it's predominantly "leave", but with the voy relaunch up to COTS, it was most definately take.

I'd disgaree with you in that COTS was heavy on original characters, with O'Donnel, Farkhas and her crew featuring a lot in it, and those were the best bits. Sadly the only original character Eternal Tide really focused on was Eden, and for me that was a mess.
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Old September 3 2012, 08:02 PM   #203
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

With the loss of so many ships, I would think SFC would call a halt to the mission and have them return, versus expend more ships that might be betterr used for recovery and/or to defend against the Typhon Pact.
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Old September 3 2012, 08:11 PM   #204
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

The thing that surprises me more than the return or departure of any characters is how much this book felt like a potential series finale. I get the feeling Kristin Beyer either knows she won't be lucky enough to write for Voyager forever, or is losing interest. The biggest on-going mystery of the series (Post Full Circle) centers on Eden's mysterious background. That mystery has been solved, as well as the 'mystery' the characters were in-universe sent out to resolve per their orders -- figure out how 'gone' the Borg really are. About the only thing that isn't really resolved from Beyer's works are those eight entities that accidentally got released.

As far as the story goes...I liked it a great deal. Well, we knew Janeway would probably come back someday, and we knew that the Q would be involved in someway. I really liked how Beyer wrote all of the Q and especially think she managed to channel John De Lanci's chilling tone he takes on when he means bussiness. You know, the times when you really get the feeling you're getting told off by a greater power, and not just a greater bluster. It was also nice to see how much of Voyager's dubious additions to the Q mythology were used, and to what great effect. I only just realized how much I'll miss little q.

I think they got rid of Amanda to tie up continunity problems with q's origin. Since q was supposed to be the first Q-reproduction, canon can now have it both ways. (Amanda was the first born Q, but then she never existed. Continunity steamrolls on!)

Personally, I hope the Voyager fleet doesn't get re-deployed in the Alpha quadrent and get to keep their mission in the Delta Quadrant. I really like this series set-up and I think it has more potential to be wrung out of it before it needs a serious re-tooling. (To be honest, I'd rather have the Full-Circle stuff have been the TV show. That would've been something to remember!)
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Old September 3 2012, 08:28 PM   #205
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Newspaper Taxi wrote: View Post
(To be honest, I'd rather have the Full-Circle stuff have been the TV show. That would've been something to remember!)
What I would've liked to see happen in the show was for Janeway to track down the other AQ/BQ ships abducted by the Caretaker and form a convoy, rather than just going it alone. That could've been a lot richer -- and would've made better use of the Maquis element if there'd been a Cardassian ship in the mix.

Of course, they didn't do that because it would've been more expensive to shoot footage of multiple ships -- and perhaps because it would've been too reminiscent of the "ragtag, fugitive fleet" of Battlestar Galactica. But it could've been cool.
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Old September 3 2012, 08:33 PM   #206
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Newspaper Taxi wrote: View Post
(To be honest, I'd rather have the Full-Circle stuff have been the TV show. That would've been something to remember!)
What I would've liked to see happen in the show was for Janeway to track down the other AQ/BQ ships abducted by the Caretaker and form a convoy, rather than just going it alone. That could've been a lot richer -- and would've made better use of the Maquis element if there'd been a Cardassian ship in the mix.

Of course, they didn't do that because it would've been more expensive to shoot footage of multiple ships -- and perhaps because it would've been too reminiscent of the "ragtag, fugitive fleet" of Battlestar Galactica. But it could've been cool.
If only we could have a well-written novel which shows this possibility!

On a more serious note, I'm not sure that I would have preferred that plot so much as them actually using the plots and characters they set up at the beginning. Story arcs, actual interpersonal conflicts, supply shortages, etc. The only time I can remember them actually using the last one after Season 1 was in "Demon", and even then it was a silly contrived plot device.
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Old September 3 2012, 09:29 PM   #207
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I think that Janeway's resurrection was achieved about as plausibly as it could have been, and for pretty defensible reasons. The idea that, in the original timeline unaltered by the Admiral, Janeway and crew did something that needed to be accomplished in the current timeline makes sense. Likewise, the use of the Q Continuum also made sense to me.

But was there really a need to destroy half of the Voyager Fleet, including the Quirinal that Children of the Storm did such a good job of introducing us to? It does seem like too much of a hard reset, IMHO.
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Old September 3 2012, 09:43 PM   #208
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
I think that Janeway's resurrection was achieved about as plausibly as it could have been, and for pretty defensible reasons. The idea that, in the original timeline unaltered by the Admiral, Janeway and crew did something that needed to be accomplished in the current timeline makes sense. Likewise, the use of the Q Continuum also made sense to me.

But was there really a need to destroy half of the Voyager Fleet, including the Quirinal that Children of the Storm did such a good job of introducing us to? It does seem like too much of a hard reset, IMHO.
That's basicly how I feel. I'm not a big fan of bringing the dead back, but it was done in a way I can 'dig'.
But the entire destruction on that scale... such a pity.
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Old September 4 2012, 12:07 AM   #209
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I've been trying to remember, but the "Get her!" plan reminded me of something. I just remembered: Akroyd's character in the first Ghostbusters. : )
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Old September 4 2012, 12:25 AM   #210
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Turbo wrote: View Post
The only time I can remember them actually using the last one after Season 1 was in "Demon", and even then it was a silly contrived plot device.
They ran out of deuterium, somehow.
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