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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old September 2 2012, 12:21 AM   #241
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Actually no, no proof was given...
YES the proof was given, and by far more than "two drunk elderly English guys." You just choose not to believe it, or even investigate it, because you would prefer to believe in aliens.

There's a big difference between "There is no proof" and "I don't believe the proof." We learn this from a study of creationism -- particularly young Earth creationism -- which somehow manages to look at the entire volume of scientific literature and see "Not enough data; inconclusive."

And as for intervention, I mentioned that many instances, made by people from the military, came foreward and talked about how they encountered UFO's that 'turned off' their nucealr misisle silos...
But not permanently, and not all of them, which is EXTREMELY significant. IF that is an example of alien intervention, it is one of aliens testing their ability to systematically disarm us if we ever decided to oppose them (or if not aliens, some sneaky Russians in a top secret aircraft). "Intervention" can be said to have lasting effects, which UFOs and/or alien abductions never really produce.

Case in point:
It's like when you have 2 bratty kids ready to get into a fight, and each grabs a big, pointy stick. If you walked by them and saw this, if one is a responsible person, you'd go and stop the fight, and that their sticks from then.
Only to give to throw them on the floor where those two bratty kids can immediately pick them up and start fighting again?
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Old September 2 2012, 12:28 AM   #242
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Re: Ancient Aliens

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Except the distance to travel and the why they would. Also, there's the lack of evidence. So it's not impossible to believe, but it is more difficult to believe. Maybe we're the apes that teach the other apes rather than vice versa.
Oh, I was kinda sarcastic about the “not more difficult to believe” part. My point was that the incredible human achievements seem, the more unlikely alien help is. If it is so difficult to believe that humans did what they did alone, then it is even more difficult to believe that there would be aliens doing all these same things waiting for us at every corner.

Of course, people here made the argument that after it has happened once they would spread throughout the galaxy in no time, which kinda makes it more likely to have them next door, but... um, if it is so difficult to believe that humans built something as unsophisticated as the pyramids, then the closest space-faring aliens could ever be would be in the next galaxy or cluster of galaxies, damn it.

P.S. Given how well contacts between cultures remote in their development and civility have gone on Earth, I'd be tremendously surprised if any alien attempts to teach us anything had any success beyond speeding up a lesson or two, and giving them a headache.
I hadn't thought about that before, but it's a sort of ontological argument against the Ancient Aliens theory. It basically assumes that primitive cultures cannot accomplish things their distant descendants would consider impressive without help from people as advanced as those ancestors. Apart from making a sweeping assumption about what people in general find impressive, it's a self-defeating assumption, since it would just as easily apply to the aliens and then we have to ask who lead THEM out of their primitive past, and who tutored their leaders, and their leaders' leaders, and so on.
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Old September 2 2012, 03:58 AM   #243
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Ancient Aliens

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Except the distance to travel and the why they would. Also, there's the lack of evidence. So it's not impossible to believe, but it is more difficult to believe. Maybe we're the apes that teach the other apes rather than vice versa.
Oh, I was kinda sarcastic about the “not more difficult to believe” part. My point was that the incredible human achievements seem, the more unlikely alien help is. If it is so difficult to believe that humans did what they did alone, then it is even more difficult to believe that there would be aliens doing all these same things waiting for us at every corner.
Fair enough. I suppose that's a testament to how seriously people believe outlandish things that it's almost impossible to spot sarcasm.
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Old September 2 2012, 05:17 AM   #244
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Re: Ancient Aliens

"Ancient Aliens" is an historically and scientifically ignorant hypothesis, and the world would be a better place if there were some way to prosecute the people who promulgate it in the media.
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Old September 2 2012, 05:43 AM   #245
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Promulgate it in the media?

You mean like Von Daniken?

Why would you want to prosecute them.. you might as well prosecute every purveyor of origin myths.
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Old September 2 2012, 06:26 AM   #246
nightwind1
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The Castellan wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Why do most of these arguments for ancient aliens boil down to "I'm too lazy to do that pyramid shit, therefore ancient man must have been too lazy, hence aliens"?
Well, why are we not building megolithic structures now?
We are.

They're called skyscrapers.
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Old September 3 2012, 11:01 AM   #247
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Re: Ancient Aliens

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
"Ancient Aliens" is an historically and scientifically ignorant hypothesis, and the world would be a better place if there were some way to prosecute the people who promulgate it in the media.
May I congratulate you, sir, for you have one of the most closed minds I have the misfortune of interacting with. You have the same mentality as those who smeared both Galileo and Copornicus. Please, give yourself a nice pat on the back, sir. I do believe that Mr. Schickelgruber would have pinned a medel on your chest for that paragraph.

And apprently, you'd probably want to prosecute all those folks who believe in alien life, who believe we have been visited....and not in mainstream belief in that we are all there is, and that we managed to build all those incredible feats of engineering, yet we somehow managed to lose. Or that we are the highest forms of life. Not to mention you don't seem to care about first amendment rights, either. Might as well go out and send police and federal agents to go crack down on various talk radio progams, paranormal conferences, books and television shows that discuss such stuff and so on. Got a plank you'd like me to walk, My Name is Legion?

You sure you don't work for some government, military or religious group?

Promulgate it in the media?

You mean like Von Daniken?

Why would you want to prosecute them.. you might as well prosecute every purveyor of origin myths.
Ego, scientists, well the closed minded ones in the mainstream, are more arrogant than rock stars and pro athletes, only difference is the last two get more sexual congress.

To mainstream scientists, the ones on a big, fat government grant, anyhow, look at paranormal investigators as bugs, insects, thorns in the side, or even using unflattering ethic nicknames when describing how they fell about us.

Give him time, he probably finds the idea of supression of ideas more enjoyable than sex....his type often does. Plus remember, mainstream scientists, historians, politicians, military authorities and the like have one thing in commen, they love to play god and want nothing more than to throw a few thunderbolts at us, the 'unwashed' as it may be. Plus they'd rather bite of their own tongues and swallow it than even suggest their answers might be wrong, even in the slightest.
Also, this reminds me of a quote one fellow with funky hair one said.

Sorry if this is not some unflattering, cheesy "LOL" type picture or camparison to anyone in a silly costume or mask, but I don't fly that way. Though, if I might correct ole' Albo on one bit is that society has not forgotten the gift, but more like frowning upon the gift. Society loves its servant's though.

Personally, I don't know which is more dogmatic, the mainstream scientific community, or the mainstream religious community....at the latter have been proven to be able to convert and change their view points at certain times. And I remember Hahi Hawas threating to chop of Richard Hoagland's head should he ever come to Eygpt, which he plans to do....given Zahi's track record (I heard ole's Zahi might be having some legal problems and if guilty, might spend a year in jail....been a while since I heard this, still is ammusing, and sad, in a way, though), and that he's threatening harm to alternative ideas and theories, My Name is Legion would probably get all warm and tingly as such an suggestion.


And personally, I'd love to get an autographed copy of Van Daniken's books.
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Old September 3 2012, 01:05 PM   #248
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The idea that the scientists (of all people) are dogmatic and unable to change their views undermines everything else you say.
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Old September 3 2012, 01:08 PM   #249
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Well actually, everything he says undermines everything he says.
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Old September 3 2012, 01:09 PM   #250
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Re: Ancient Aliens

I was being charitable.
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Old September 3 2012, 01:38 PM   #251
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Re: Ancient Aliens

The Castellan wrote: View Post

May I congratulate you, sir, for you have one of the most closed minds I have the misfortune of interacting with. You have the same mentality as those who smeared both Galileo and Copornicus. Please, give yourself a nice pat on the back, sir. I do believe that Mr. Schickelgruber would have pinned a medel on your chest for that paragraph.
Like I said before, you've got to give people some type of evidence. I simply don't buy that paintings somehow represent proof of alien involvement. Is imagination something unique to modern man? I simply don't buy that people couldn't have built things like the pyramids. The Romans were able to build bridges, aqua-ducts and even a coliseum without modern tools.

You've got to offer more than, "I don't know, therefore aliens" as proof for these theories. Give me an alien rivet or gum wrapper or something... anything that is tangible proof.
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Old September 3 2012, 02:38 PM   #252
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Mainstream scientists are a bunch of lying arrogant close-minded idiots. Independent science is the way to go. I always choose my homoeopathic doctor. I cleanse my colon regularly. I always put my girlfriend through the polygraph to tell if she's cheating on me... all of them have failed me so far – who could tell? And, you know what? Right now I'm saving money for my new perpetual motion apartment battery pack, because my previous one broke. Ha! And while these corrupt scientists are denying its existence, I'm enjoying my free energy and laughing hard. I hope this time I can get a water-fuelled engine for my car too.

I would like to share more about the amazing things they are hiding from you, but right now I have to run to investigate this crop circle on my cornfield that says “Yellow Submarine is a gullible cuckoo”, and figure out what the aliens are trying to tell me. I think their women want me as their mate because of my superior intelligence.
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Old September 3 2012, 03:10 PM   #253
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Deckerd wrote: View Post
The idea that the scientists (of all people) are dogmatic and unable to change their views undermines everything else you say.
Oh, there are plenty of *bad* scientists - or, worse, *bought* scientists - throughout history, who were or are like that!

Thankfully there's the also the good ones, who do indeed get that it's the job of science to accept new discoveries.

It's just that neither type of them really have anything to do with ancient aliens, since they never existed. Or if they did exist, they sensibly kept out of the way and didn't interfere...
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Old September 3 2012, 03:36 PM   #254
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Actually, it's the job of a scientist to reject or at least attempt to disprove new discoveries, not to accept them. The point of science is skepticism. It's only after the idea has withstood all rigorous challenges that scientists can think of that it should be accepted.
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Old September 3 2012, 03:56 PM   #255
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Re: Ancient Aliens

I'm assuming for the sake of the post that "new discoveries" means having been all proved and stuff.
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