RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,756
Posts: 5,216,416
Members: 24,216
Currently online: 846
Newest member: kasmuruis

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Enterprise

Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 2 2012, 01:23 AM   #16
Spanky
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Spanky's Avatar
 
Location: Great Scott
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

kythe wrote: View Post
The problem is, I don't believe for an instant that this was their only course of action - or would have been if Archer's previous poor decisions hadn't led up to it. He never tried to negotiate with the Xindi, which would have been the logical course of action in the first place. His stopping their weapon would have only bought them some time, but you know they would just build another one. When he was told by the time traveler that he could stop them from bombing earth, I don't think they meant by force. After all, he did have only one ship that was seriously outnumbered and outgunned. But that was the only tactic he had tried so far.

It wasn't until Daniels stepped in again (his role in the plot often seems contrived according to what direction the writers want the story to go) in "Azati Prime" with that Xindi artifact and told him how to explain to the Xindi that they'd been duped that Archer even thought about just *talking* to them. But by then it was too late because he had already been captured by the reptilians. It came off as an act of desperation, not a negotiation for a peace treaty.

I kind of like the Xindi. They have a unique culture where 5 sentient species had all evolved on the same planet. They had their squabbles, but they had made it work where each had an equal voice in the coucil dedicated to their well being. This kind of unity shows that they have passed one of the tests for admittance into the Federation. They've been tricked into believing humans are a threat, and are acting in self-defense. So how is it necessary for Enterprise to see them as arch-enemies that need to be stopped at all costs? They need to have their information corrected, that is all. But Archer is proving them right - that humans are ruthless.

But this series has drastically reduced it's moral values to get to this point. Star Trek has always been about bringing out the best in humanity, but this is not an example of that. Archer's crew are more a reflection of how modern people (specifically Americans) perceive "problem solving" when it comes to threats. It doesn't show what we can be, it only reflects how we are now. There is a real "end justifies the means" attitude presented, since the hurtful actions Archer takes are presented as the "right" decisions for the circumstance. This is taking a low road for Star Trek, and I'm disappointed in it.
I don't think Archer's actions are depicted as the right ones - in fact, it's shown countless times the morale dilemma that he faces when he makes the actions, and touches on this in season 4 when he's all emo about space exploration to Hernandez.

And I know Star Trek is about human morales and their ingenuity and etcetcetc, but it can get kind of grinding to show humanity as this almost nigh-wrong dogooders of the galaxy on a constant basis. Most of Star Trek wanted to show humans in a good light, their possibilities. Season 3 of Ent wanted to show humans at their lowest, and the choices made during that, which can show a more believable side to any sentient life; regardless of how great they think their values are, there is a threshold to it.

Archer and the crew did go into the Expanse with the intention of guns blazing, as evidenced when Trip is all in Archer's grill about not pussy-footing around when it came time. But in the end they did manage to settle their differences, regardless of how it came about, and ended in the happy, diplomatic, Star-Trek-style ending. So I don't particularly see the problem.

Honestly, if you were in Archer's shoes, how would you have handled the whole saving-the-humans mission?

"Excuse me, you stole a lot of my cargo, can I have it back?"
"No."
"Oh ok. :-)"

"I need your warp coil otherwise my entire planet will be destroyed and a couple billion people will be dead!"
"Well you can't have it."
"That's okay, thanks anyway. :-)"

Also, if you really don't like the un-utopian view of humanity during season 3, a small arc in season 4 might not be to your taste either, as that also shows a portion of humans being baaaaad.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 05:07 AM   #17
robau
Lieutenant Commander
 
robau's Avatar
 
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

After finishing it a few months ago I still find myself wishing there was more.
robau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 05:25 AM   #18
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

robau wrote: View Post
After finishing it a few months ago I still find myself wishing there was more.
It kills me every time.

I really wish there was more.

Have you heard what some of the season 5 plans were robau? It is just painful to know what we missed. They were going to go to Denobula!! And Shran was going to be a full time character! And stuff with Romulans was going to happen!!

It really is very sad.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 08:25 AM   #19
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

And there was going to be -another- Borg episode... with the Queen... just a reminder that it's a double bladed sword.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 09:33 AM   #20
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

I refuse to believe such a thing would ever happen.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 11:28 AM   #21
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

The Borg Queen origin story is the one I'd most have liked to see, actually.

Memory Alpha wrote:
Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens pitched a story with Alice Krige as a Starfleet medical technician who makes contact with the Borg from Season 2's (" Regeneration") and becomes the Borg Queen.
It would have explained her obsession with humanity and wanting a human equal.

Here are brief synopsis the rest of ENT's unmade episodes:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Unde...prise_episodes

Here's a script review of Star Trek: The Beginning, the unmade Romulan War film (where Enterprise is at Risa and misses the whole thing): http://www.aintitcool.com/node/34635
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 11:35 AM   #22
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

It's just too much NX-01 makes contact with every major story line ever, the Borg Queen one. Going to look at the others.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 02:57 PM   #23
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

teacake wrote: View Post
It's just too much NX-01 makes contact with every major story line ever, the Borg Queen one. Going to look at the others.
Yeah, that was part of Enterprise's weakness... they spent too much time touching on other storylines than just telling their own.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 03:01 PM   #24
NrobbieC
Commander
 
NrobbieC's Avatar
 
Location: Burton, UK
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

Ah to have seen Alice Krige as the Borg Queen one more time...
The Kzinti, T'Pol being half-Romulan, so much potential...
NrobbieC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 05:48 PM   #25
Skywalker
Admiral
 
Skywalker's Avatar
 
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

teacake wrote: View Post
It's just too much NX-01 makes contact with every major story line ever, the Borg Queen one. Going to look at the others.
I agree. I think "Regeneration" (which I enjoyed) was plenty of Borg stuff for ENT.
Skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 05:52 PM   #26
Methos
First Officer: USS Aventine
 
Methos's Avatar
 
Location: Hiding under Gaila's bed...
View Methos's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Methos Send a message via Yahoo to Methos
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

The Romulan storyline, especially with T'pol and Trip's return / resurrection, was something i was really looking forward to as well

M
__________________
In Russia, a 122 year old man has passed away, he credited his long life to abtaining from alcohol, tobacco and women. His last words were "I've made a huge mistake."
Methos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2012, 12:48 AM   #27
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

Skywalker wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
It's just too much NX-01 makes contact with every major story line ever, the Borg Queen one. Going to look at the others.
I agree. I think "Regeneration" (which I enjoyed) was plenty of Borg stuff for ENT.
Regeneration still provokes some over the use of the Borg even though we never hear their name. It's very well done though, from the "The Thing" homage to the fast pace it builds up to. Music is good too.

Also the Borg Queen says "my species" at some point, to differentiate between her origin and humans. She is not a human so it really wouldn't make any sense.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2012, 10:44 AM   #28
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

^That wasn't Alice Krige's Borg Queen. That was Susanna Thompson. So it could be explained away that way.

Then again, the plot synopsis says Starfleet but it doesn't say human. She may have been one of those aliens that just happen to look just like us.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2012, 11:14 AM   #29
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

I thought we were just supposed to pretend Krige and Thompson were the same Borg Queen physically.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3 2012, 11:56 AM   #30
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: I can't watch Enterprise anymore...

teacake wrote: View Post
I thought we were just supposed to pretend Krige and Thompson were the same Borg Queen physically.
The Queen identified herself as a different species number than humanity. Don't ask me to recall from memory, but I'm sure it's on Memory Alpha.

I'm sure people would be trying to use the different actresses to somehow "justify" this plot arc that thankfully never happened, but that's a weak arguement to say the least. I suppose Ziyal was just getting plastic surgery every few weeks or Cardassians shed their ridges or something too?

I dunno, most of the ideas of the proposed season 5 of Enterprise just made me cringe and think it was best they ended on a high note... well not sucking anyways on Season 4 minus Storm Front and TATV.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.