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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 28 2012, 04:35 PM   #46
XFozzboute
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

I know the guy who did these animations and he's trying to replicate the originals as much as he can and not change things too much. And his renders are done with 3D Studio Max.
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Old August 28 2012, 04:43 PM   #47
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

^Okay, then that just confounds my confusion. What was it that the original poster thought was different/better about this?
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Old August 28 2012, 06:41 PM   #48
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

No thanks. I'm frankly a little tired of people trying to change the classics. I don't mind what's being done to TNG, but anything beyond that shouldn't be done.

This all reminds me of the big fad some years ago to colorize black and white movies. Just leave them alone already.
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Old August 28 2012, 06:44 PM   #49
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

i want minimal new CGI, its fine as it is.
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Old August 28 2012, 07:37 PM   #50
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Okay, then that just confounds my confusion. What was it that the original poster thought was different/better about this?
I'm honestly not sure.

Comparing it to the original scene, the only two shots in which angles, motion, etc. are changed in any significant way are

A) the very beginning, when the Ent-D swings around to face the oncoming Klingon ships, and
B) the "Continuous fire, all phasers" bit; the ship has more visible forward momentum in the CG version, and tilts upward more.

That said, other than the addition of debris when the BoP goes boom, the difference is pretty slight, if you ask me. I do think that the CG version of scene A is pretty cool; I like how we get to see the Ent-D pass all the way by, but I'm really not seeing this supposed massive improvement in ship choreography. It's a very minimal difference.

As to the quality of the CG: I don't think it's fair to bash it for not looking as good as the remastered model work in the show, but then, I don't really see anyone in this thread DOING that. Considering that it's fan-made, it's actually quite good for the most part (though not the best fan-made CG I've ever seen; that honor goes to Romulan Ale). The main flaw I see in it is that the phasers are a little dodgy.

Just so it's known where I'm coming from here, I'm a huge fan of good CG work; I bristle a bit when encountering what I perceive to be a knee-jerk "CG is bad/lifeless/lazy/etc" mindset. For certain productions, it's the perfect way to do visuals, and can look amazing when done well. I don't consider it any more or less "valid" than other, more traditional, effects tech; it's all in how you use it.

But TNG isn't one of those productions that would really benefit, unless one WERE trying to do a complete overhaul of all the visuals and redo them from scratch, which clearly isn't the case with the TNG HD releases. The whole idea is to make it look like the original, but better/in high-def, so I agree that restoration without alteration is the way to go.
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Old August 28 2012, 08:15 PM   #51
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

^Okay, thanks. Maybe the OP misremembered the FX in the original as being more static or simple than they actually were.

There is some CGI in the remastered TNG. They can remaster and recomposite the original film elements of ship miniatures and the like, but a number of things in the original, like planets, phaser beams, the Crystalline Entity, and such, were created using video effects or early CGI and only exist in low-resolution form. So they did have to be recreated from scratch, and what they did with the planets was similar to what they did in TOS-R: maintaining the same basic aesthetic as the original planets, but with more detail and realism.
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Old August 28 2012, 09:13 PM   #52
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
old people ...
You should respect "old people" because you might live to be one someday and then you'll have to listen to all the disrespectful young punks bitching and moaning about how stupid old people are and you'll yell at them to get off your lawn ... I can almost guarantee it.
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Old August 28 2012, 09:33 PM   #53
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
ITT old people moan about CGI....and how it was better in the olden days when models were used...
Tell that to VFX guys, as they still choose real models over CGI at times.
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Old August 30 2012, 10:21 PM   #54
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

When it was confirmed that they'd be doing TNG-R, I was initially hoping that they'd redo all the ship shots with CGI if only to create different and newer designs than the old movie models that they were forced to reuse because of budgetary concerns. Case in point with "Yesterday's Enterprise" and the "K'Vort class battlecruisers," which were just unrealistically upscaled BoPs. They hadn't yet built the Vorcha model, which is most likely what they would have used if they had it.

However, seeing as how fantastic S1 looks, I've changed my tune. I would much prefer the model shots in HD instead of CGI replacements.
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Old August 30 2012, 10:24 PM   #55
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Case in point with "Yesterday's Enterprise" and the "K'Vort class battlecruisers," which were just unrealistically upscaled BoPs. They hadn't yet built the Vorcha model, which is most likely what they would have used if they had it.
If they wanted Klingon battlecruisers, I don't know why they didn't just use the lovely K'tinga-class miniature instead of the ugly, wrong-sized BoP.
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Old August 30 2012, 11:02 PM   #56
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

I heard rumors that the Ktinga model had been damaged after TMP and wasn't repaired until TUC, which might explain why TNG didn't use it in this episode. I'll try to remember to ask Bill George about this next time I see him.
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Old August 30 2012, 11:08 PM   #57
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

Hmm, yeah, I guess the footage of it in "Heart of Glory" and "The Emissary" was stock from TMP.
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Old August 30 2012, 11:50 PM   #58
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

I can't picture Yesterday's Enterprise with Vor'chas...anyone know some CGI? lol
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Old August 30 2012, 11:55 PM   #59
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

Christopher wrote: View Post
If they wanted Klingon battlecruisers, I don't know why they didn't just use the lovely K'tinga-class miniature instead of the ugly, wrong-sized BoP.
"Ugly"? I thought fans pretty much all loved the BoP.
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Old August 31 2012, 12:10 AM   #60
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Re: Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

davejames wrote: View Post
"Ugly"? I thought fans pretty much all loved the BoP.
I think it's an eyesore. Really, I don't much care for any Klingon ship designs aside from Jefferies's D7 and its very faithful K'tinga counterpart (which is virtually identical in shape, just more detailed). Jefferies's design looks like a dragon in flight, elegantly menacing. The Bird of Prey was consciously designed to suggest a football linebacker when seen from the front -- just bulk and brute force, all the elegance lost. Not to mention that it doesn't really work as a Trek-universe design because it doesn't have any recognizable engine nacelles. (Well, okay, we've seen more nacelle-less warp ships since then, but none of them were Klingon.) And all the TNG-era Klingon ships were blocky and angular and covered with kitbashy surface detail, and the sleek simplicity and grace of Jefferies's design was long gone.
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