Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

[CommanderRaytas]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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Even in supposedly dark DS9 the characters were emotional Gumbys, just like TOS.

Ziyal is cruelly murdered? Thats okay, lets have a Klingon wedding with plenty of hijinx! Odo helped the enemy? whatever, we forgive him and reinstate him as chief of security. Sisko advises the Bajorans against the interests of the Federation? Starfleet doesnt even notice. There's a terrible war going on, and the future of the Federation nags in the balance? That doesn't stop the station's officers from becoming obsessed with a holosuite baseball tournament.

So right. This is one of the things that annoys me most about any ST show....those people go through a lot of truly horrible stuff, I mean the writers do real numbers on them, and what are the repercussions? Nada!

Like O'Brien, who's the resident butt monkey (twice he got imprisoned - he spent a life sentence in his mind, in a horrible place, where he did horrible things), and it never, ever affects him. He is body-snatched and replaced by a robot and has a war trauma, he time-travels and sees everyone he knows getting blown up, he's fought the Borg...I could go on and on.

He never changes. It never affects him. Not one bit. He just doesn't give a fuck. That guy's more of a sociopath than Sheldon Cooper and Sherlock Holmes put together. Yikes.

Dark and gritty might be the wrong choice of words....I love optimism as much as the next girl, but Jesus, can actions please have consequences? Overcoming personal limitations, difficulties, conflict, fear, prejudice....that's what courage and optimism mean. If nothing amounts to anything, then being moral and brave and noble and chipper is not really an achievement at all.

[Temis the Vorta]

The level of emotional obliviousness displayed by Star Trek characters (for the convenience of moving the story along) would be laughed off the screen anywhere on cable nowadays except maybe on USA, which doesnt do sci fi, and SyFy, which barely does sci fi.

Wherever the next show ends up, it will almost certainly be someplace where the audience demands more emotional realism. That will be one change we'll see in the next series and I doubt it will be the only one.

[RandyS]

The Castellan wrote:

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The folks in TOS knew, from the beginning that, as Kirk said, "Risk IS the business." Dwelling on when and how one's going to get killing while serving on board a statship would be a vain occupation. Same with TNG. The first 2 or 3 years of TNG showed how unsafe and dangerous space could be, and everyone on the Enterprise knew that, they just are not the paranoid, panic mongering people you see on stuff like...say, Doctor Who....the English public in the new series panic at anything beyond the mundane, the Daleks would be doing them a favor by wiping them out.

And regarding Utopia, whatever they have going in that world, socially, economically and politcally, sure's a hell of a lot better than what we got, and if given a chance, I'd go there, and flip this world off.

Me too.

When the fans say they want the next series to have "repercussions", what they are really saying is wallowing in emotions. Doing that is not healthy and not good, and I will never see the attraction to it. I'm sure the Star Trek characters dealt with their emotions,such as Picard with his assimliation, we just never saw it. You're not supposed to do that in public anyway. That's for you alone in private.

Grieve, then pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move onto the next thing. That's what we saw in Star Trek, and that's how it should be in real life.

[CommanderRaytas]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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The level of emotional obliviousness displayed by Star Trek characters (for the convenience of moving the story along) would be laughed off the screen anywhere on cable nowadays except maybe on USA, which doesnt do sci fi, and SyFy, which barely does sci fi.

Wherever the next show ends up, it will almost certainly be someplace where the audience demands more emotional realism. That will be one change we'll see in the next series and I doubt it will be the only one.

Agreed. Changes are necessary because ST needs to adapt to modern TV.

To me, it's one of the most important things, having the characters actually feel the emotional impact of an event for more than the rest of the episode.

[lonewriter]

I hate zombies so I wouldn't watch that. The Andorians are going extinct in the novels, that's why they left the federation because the withheld medical information in the Typhon books, which I love btw. I'd love to see a darker trek series.

[Mars]

Here's an obvious one, how about a Star Trek Series set in the Mirror Universe, the protagonists would be rebels fighting the Terran Empire, yes it would be in the 23rd century. I have a few ideas regarding this. How about some of the Rebels being Khan's men who rebelled against him, they managed to escape in the SS Botany Bay during the Eugenics War, that Eugenics war being fought between the victors of World War II the Americans and the Third Reich for domination of the Globe. Khan Noonan Singh throws his support in favor of the American Imperium. Defeating the Axis Powers and their race of Supermen. Some American Rebels along with some of Khans men escape on the Botany Bay. At a certain point the Botany Bay is rescued by the ISS Enterprise. This is the Mirror Universe Counterpart of the Star Trek XI movie where the Romulan Nero kills Kirk's Father and destroys Vulcan, the Mirror Universe has a different version of this story. The Rebels of the SS Botany Bay take over the ISS Enterprise and Spock joins them, and they begin plotting their revolution to overthrow the Terran Empire.

How does that sound?

[Cmdr Ji Qi Ren]

Haven't read all of this, so maybe this has been said before:
How about a far distant future in which the Federation has been destroyed by some war and the heroics of well-known Starfleet officers are only remembered as legends. There are different factions, all trying to rebuild the Federation in their own way and using different variations of the legends as a justification?

[Mars]

300 years is far distant to me, it is longer than I shall live. If you want thousands of years, there is always star wars, that is tens of thousands of years old.

[BillJ]

Cmdr Ji Qi Ren wrote:

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Haven't read all of this, so maybe this has been said before:
How about a far distant future in which the Federation has been destroyed by some war and the heroics of well-known Starfleet officers are only remembered as legends. There are different factions, all trying to rebuild the Federation in their own way and using different variations of the legends as a justification?

You should probably go watch Andromeda.

[The Castellan]

BillJ wrote:

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You should probably go watch Andromeda.

Or read tons of Star Wars comics and novels.

[Cmdr Ji Qi Ren]

BillJ wrote:

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You should probably go watch Andromeda.

Thanks, I'll try that when I'm done re-watching Star Trek

The Castellan wrote:

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Or read tons of Star Wars comics and novels.

I don't get Star Wars I've watched all of the movies several times and have no idea what is going on in them. I know it's not exactly complex, but somehow ...

[Cmdr Ji Qi Ren]

[QUOTE=RandyS;6816740][QUOTE=The Castellan;6810338]

Hartzilla2007 wrote:

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Me too.

When the fans say they want the next series to have "repercussions", what they are really saying is wallowing in emotions. Doing that is not healthy and not good, and I will never see the attraction to it. I'm sure the Star Trek characters dealt with their emotions,such as Picard with his assimliation, we just never saw it. You're not supposed to do that in public anyway. That's for you alone in private.

Grieve, then pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move onto the next thing. That's what we saw in Star Trek, and that's how it should be in real life.

I kind of agree with those who are saying that Star Trek is unrealistic in this respect.
But on the other hand... look at some crime series where the investigators crack jokes while standing next to a dead body and it seems to affect them even less than anything affects the characters on Star Trek....... I don't know..... if you're standing right next to the corpse of a person who has been killed at close quarters rather than be blown up by a neat little phaser beam or photon torpedo from hundreds of miles away.... shouldn't that affect you more?

[Temis the Vorta]

I really can't see the MU working as an ongoing series. Its a one joke thing, and it would wear out its welcome very fast...

...unless they really go for the emotional/political realism angle. Instead of just treating the MU as a sleazy joke, which it devolved into, particularly on DS9, treat it with the seriousness and complexity of Game of Thrones. Hmm, that could work. There's a fantasy angle to the MU that fits in with modern cable show appetites for stuff like True Blood. It's an easy way to justify getting Trek out of the safe-vanilla tone that is going to simply bore the stuffing out of modern cable audiences. They've all gotten used to much redder meat.

But realistically, I'm still going with this as the likeliest option: CBS-Netflix co-production, distribute in America on Netflix, ditto for territories where Netflix has a presence, CBS handles distribution otherwise globally. Don't worry if you don't have Netflix where you are.

Tone is not far off from traditional Trek, maybe a bit more adult and significantly more serialized. More blood, more violent action, a bit racier, but nowhere near Showtime style graphic sex. You should be able to watch the show with your hip grandma. Intelligence/complexity level will hit somewhere between The Walking Dead and Falling Skies. Game of Thrones is wishful thinkng.

Setting: 23rd C, Abrams U to the extent we can tell. The way we'd be able to tell is when they bring in movie actors for guest shots. I could see Quinto, Nimoy and Cho agreeing to cameos or short plotlines.

Premise: Starfleet crew, going boldly, nothing fancy there. Not the Enterprise crew but reminiscent of them. No civil war, no corrupt Federation. Plenty of life left in the Starfleeters on patrol concept, particularly if its serialized, something we've really never seen.

[Mars]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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I really can't see the MU working as an ongoing series. Its a one joke thing, and it would wear out its welcome very fast...

...unless they really go for the emotional/political realism angle. Instead of just treating the MU as a sleazy joke, which it devolved into, particularly on DS9, treat it with the seriousness and complexity of Game of Thrones. Hmm, that could work. There's a fantasy angle to the MU that fits in with modern cable show appetites for stuff like True Blood. It's an easy way to justify getting Trek out of the safe-vanilla tone that is going to simply bore the stuffing out of modern cable audiences. They've all gotten used to much redder meat.

But realistically, I'm still going with this as the likeliest option: CBS-Netflix co-production, distribute in America on Netflix, ditto for territories where Netflix has a presence, CBS handles distribution otherwise globally. Don't worry if you don't have Netflix where you are.

Tone is not far off from traditional Trek, maybe a bit more adult and significantly more serialized. More blood, more violent action, a bit racier, but nowhere near Showtime style graphic sex. You should be able to watch the show with your hip grandma. Intelligence/complexity level will hit somewhere between The Walking Dead and Falling Skies. Game of Thrones is wishful thinkng.

Setting: 23rd C, Abrams U to the extent we can tell. The way we'd be able to tell is when they bring in movie actors for guest shots. I could see Quinto, Nimoy and Cho agreeing to cameos or short plotlines.

Premise: Starfleet crew, going boldly, nothing fancy there. Not the Enterprise crew but reminiscent of them. No civil war, no corrupt Federation. Plenty of life left in the Starfleeters on patrol concept, particularly if its serialized, something we've really never seen.

I prefer science fiction shows that stimulate your mind, not your libido. I don't think it necessary to show blood and gore all the time either, I don't want Star Trek to be an adult show, I want it to stimulate children's imaginations as well. The minute Star Trek strays into R-rated territory, that means were giving up on the Next Generation, it is children who will build the spaceships of tomorrow and go to Mars, please don't send them upstairs.

[Mars]

[QUOTE=Cmdr Ji Qi Ren;6872360][QUOTE=RandyS;6816740]

The Castellan wrote:

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I kind of agree with those who are saying that Star Trek is unrealistic in this respect.
But on the other hand... look at some crime series where the investigators crack jokes while standing next to a dead body and it seems to affect them even less than anything affects the characters on Star Trek....... I don't know..... if you're standing right next to the corpse of a person who has been killed at close quarters rather than be blown up by a neat little phaser beam or photon torpedo from hundreds of miles away.... shouldn't that affect you more?

There's a reason Battlestar Galactica chose bullets rather than blasters the previous show had, they wanted to show the blood and gore.