RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,345
Posts: 5,445,084
Members: 24,966
Currently online: 568
Newest member: Borough 31

TrekToday headlines

Kruge Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Oct 30

Two Trek Actors In Green Room
By: T'Bonz on Oct 30

Trek UglyDolls First Look
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

New Star Trek Select Action Figure
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

Trek Actors In Elsa & Fred
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

The Red Shirt Diaries #9
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28

Greenwood Cast In Truth
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28

Cumberbatch In Talks For Strange
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28

Two New Trek Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Oct 27

Meaney On Playing Historical Figure Durant
By: T'Bonz on Oct 27


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science and Technology

Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 28 2012, 05:29 PM   #31
THE Robert Maxwell
Reports of my death...
 
THE Robert Maxwell's Avatar
 
Location: Robert Maxwell
View THE Robert Maxwell's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via AIM to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via Yahoo to THE Robert Maxwell
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Those "facts" are not correct.

Here is a nice graphic showing just what patents Samsung was found to have infringed, and on which phone models.

I will comment patent by patent:

163 - Enlarging documents by tapping the screen strikes me as pretty obvious, or at least not interesting enough to deserve a patent, but yes, Samsung infringed it.
381 - The rubber-banding effect is not something I'm aware of UIs doing prior to Apple's usage. That one seems fair.
915 - Multi-touch didn't even exist in this type of device, as far as I know, before Apple introduced it. While it is an obvious thing to have if you have the technology, this particular application of it doesn't strike me as obvious.
087 - Making a phone white is novel? Really?
305 - Rounded square icons on interfaces were around before Apple used them, however using them as the basis for the entire design aesthetic seems to be an Apple "innovation." Sounds like they got that one fair and... square.
677 - Making phones black is novel, too, apparently.
889 - Don't know enough about this one to say either way.

The Samsung patents all sound absurd.

If nothing else, this case has helped further convince me that patents on simple software features are complete bullshit and shouldn't even be permitted.
__________________
Publishing all the news that's not fit to print, FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!!!!
I has a blag.
THE Robert Maxwell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2012, 07:55 AM   #32
YellowSubmarine
Rear Admiral
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

381 and 915 are only fair if you don't consider the fact that they shouldn't have been patentable in the first place. Both are patently absurd.

381 – it should be given credit for that only patent listed that makes me go, “hm, you might have something in there... ”. However, that quickly disappears once you consider why the feature is there and what are the alternatives.

If you're writing a small touch-screen UI, you want to have a perceivable distinction between end of the page and a hanged application. There is a limited number of ways to do this – visible scroll bar, whole page animation, vibration/sound, visual indication around the finger and visual indication (e.g. monochrome or blur effect) for hung apps. Only the first two strike me as intuitive. If you let someone patent one of them, you're essentially taking out the best option for any UI designer, whether they've come up with it themselves or seen it elsewhere. And it sure looks more like a natural choice than a big ingenuity.

I've tried to write some applications for a touch-screen back in the day with hacked-in scrolling, and the need for some indication is as obvious as it can get, because they are painful to test. As for the choice of UI metaphor:
1. This one is directly lifted from real life.
2. It's so obvious that in certain implementations of finger scrolling it can happen by accident. I swear the first time I saw it in an app, I thought it was a bug.
3. It's the same thing that happens when you're alt-dragging an overly tall window in X11 and have the right kind of snapping enabled. What's the difference between dragging a tall object and scrolling?
4. I have some memory of seeing it elsewhere before the iPhone, and I'm positive it was in a video game, but don't quote me on this. If it wasn't for scrolling, it was for pushing or dragging something.
5. The only sane alternative that doesn't pollute screen space is sticky elastic effect that expands the top of the page. Oh, my my, I'm a genius, I should patent this!

Back in the day, when I didn't have all these kids running on my lawn, for trivial UI cosmetic details like this, we had a choice between a few dozen, and we picked one. And none of them were an “invention”. Has Apple patented lack of choices already?

915 - now, that's just silly. Multi-touch gestures are about putting two existing things together in an obvious way without the tiniest bit of ingenuity. You've had gestures with one finger, and now you added a second finger. They're literally asking Samsung to give them the middle finger back. Wow.

Having a particular gesture is also something you shouldn't get exclusive rights on – the choice of gesture is dictated not by being ingenious, quite the opposite, you want to have a gesture that the user is familiar with. You know, just like real life gestures. You want to have the same gestures on every phone.
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)
YellowSubmarine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2012, 12:24 PM   #33
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
381 - The rubber-banding effect is not something I'm aware of UIs doing prior to Apple's usage. That one seems fair.
If one can patent that... I mean it's just an effect. Can game developers patent features in their game play? Is the crosshair in First Person Shooters patented, for example?

This is ugly. Apple is abusing the legal system to get competition out of the way.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2012, 02:22 PM   #34
THE Robert Maxwell
Reports of my death...
 
THE Robert Maxwell's Avatar
 
Location: Robert Maxwell
View THE Robert Maxwell's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via AIM to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via Yahoo to THE Robert Maxwell
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

You guys don't have to convince me that patenting stuff like this is stupid. I agree that it is.

But it's legal, and the jury was apparently loathe to invalidate any of the patents. So Samsung infringed them, stupid patents or not.
__________________
Publishing all the news that's not fit to print, FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!!!!
I has a blag.
THE Robert Maxwell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2012, 03:23 PM   #35
gturner
Admiral
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

If Alexander Graham Bell's telephone patents had been filed by Apple, they would include the idea of a round knob on the crank handle, using cherry wood for the enclosure, a black cord to the earpiece, and mounting screws that allow the user to hang the phone at user-selected locations.
gturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2012, 03:31 PM   #36
Methos
First Officer: USS Aventine
 
Methos's Avatar
 
Location: Hiding under Gaila's bed...
View Methos's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Methos Send a message via Yahoo to Methos
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

yup, i see this coming true very soon lol

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=186578

M
__________________
In Russia, a 122 year old man has passed away, he credited his long life to abtaining from alcohol, tobacco and women. His last words were "I've made a huge mistake."
Methos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 10:18 PM   #37
Tribble puncher
Commander
 
Tribble puncher's Avatar
 
Location: Lexington, KY
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

It would seem apple is showing it's true colors now, trying to get the galaxy S III and Galaxy note added to the list of phones tied to it's winning lawsuit. I think this will probibly be the thing that really starts the backlash against apple.

http://news.yahoo.com/apple-goes-sam...141722480.html
Tribble puncher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2 2012, 10:36 PM   #38
Undead
Continuity Spackle
 
Undead's Avatar
 
Location: Unicron (The mockingjay soars)
Send a message via ICQ to Undead
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

It seems they have a new spokesperson for the next version of Android as well.

__________________

"If you think you're brave enough to walk the path of honor, then follow me into the dragon's den."


Knight Exemplar
Undead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 09:13 PM   #39
Methos
First Officer: USS Aventine
 
Methos's Avatar
 
Location: Hiding under Gaila's bed...
View Methos's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Methos Send a message via Yahoo to Methos
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

The way Apple is rolling now, they'll patent the term Jobs soon, and start suing governments for creating more jobs without paying Apple for using the term...

M
__________________
In Russia, a 122 year old man has passed away, he credited his long life to abtaining from alcohol, tobacco and women. His last words were "I've made a huge mistake."
Methos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 11 2012, 09:24 PM   #40
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Well there is still the appeals to hear. Possible other cases around the world which might not go apples way. And so

It'll be many years before it's over.

In the meantime the loser is not Smasung nor Apple but the end consumer.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2012, 01:24 AM   #41
Methos
First Officer: USS Aventine
 
Methos's Avatar
 
Location: Hiding under Gaila's bed...
View Methos's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Methos Send a message via Yahoo to Methos
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Interesting development. I guess Apple decided to sit in the corner sulking. Take not of other peoples work and later patent the hell out of it.

"It's official. The Opus audio codec is now standardized by the IETF as RFC 6716. Opus is the first state-of-the-art, fully Free and Open audio codec ratified by a major standard."
http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/09...end-all-codecs

Opus is the result of a collaboration between Xiph.Org, Mozilla, Microsoft (yes!), Broadcom, Octasic, and Google...

Xiph already handle Ogg, Speex and FLAC among others if I recall.

M
__________________
In Russia, a 122 year old man has passed away, he credited his long life to abtaining from alcohol, tobacco and women. His last words were "I've made a huge mistake."
Methos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12 2012, 08:22 PM   #42
THE Robert Maxwell
Reports of my death...
 
THE Robert Maxwell's Avatar
 
Location: Robert Maxwell
View THE Robert Maxwell's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via AIM to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via Yahoo to THE Robert Maxwell
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Cool. I'm always in favor of open, royalty-free media standards. Let's get them built into some hardware now!
__________________
Publishing all the news that's not fit to print, FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!!!!
I has a blag.
THE Robert Maxwell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 05:40 AM   #43
Gary7
Rear Admiral
 
Gary7's Avatar
 
Location: Near Manhattan ··· in an alternate reality
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

I find the whole patent administration of this country to be despicable. I mean, the things that you are permitted to patent... so many of them are too "obvious". I really don't think you should be able to patent the shape of a device, unless it is just a very unique shape never made before. A rounded corner rectangle? A grid menu display of icons that appear on a screen? The ability to "swipe" those icons off the screen like a page? I really don't think these characteristics should be patent-able. Now, perhaps the logic routine employed to manage scrolling momentum, with the "elastic" effect... YES, I can see that being patented.

Anyway, I think that if Apple wins the appeal, they'll use this as a platform to stand on and take aim at all the others, like Motorola, HTC, etc. Wasn't there an Apple suit against Android that eventually fizzled out?
__________________
Remembering Ensign Mallory.
Gary7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 01:01 PM   #44
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

I guess Disney should have patented that "elastic effect". They used it for character and object animation long before Apple existed.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13 2012, 02:09 PM   #45
THE Robert Maxwell
Reports of my death...
 
THE Robert Maxwell's Avatar
 
Location: Robert Maxwell
View THE Robert Maxwell's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via AIM to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to THE Robert Maxwell Send a message via Yahoo to THE Robert Maxwell
Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Gary7 wrote: View Post
I find the whole patent administration of this country to be despicable. I mean, the things that you are permitted to patent... so many of them are too "obvious". I really don't think you should be able to patent the shape of a device, unless it is just a very unique shape never made before. A rounded corner rectangle? A grid menu display of icons that appear on a screen? The ability to "swipe" those icons off the screen like a page? I really don't think these characteristics should be patent-able. Now, perhaps the logic routine employed to manage scrolling momentum, with the "elastic" effect... YES, I can see that being patented.

Anyway, I think that if Apple wins the appeal, they'll use this as a platform to stand on and take aim at all the others, like Motorola, HTC, etc. Wasn't there an Apple suit against Android that eventually fizzled out?
Fully agreed.

Patents are supposed to be on things that are "novel" and "non-obvious." There are a lot of patents that consist of little more than "[some existing activity] on a computer." That's not novel, it's an obvious application. Rounded corners in a UI? How the hell is that novel? Apparently, Apple also has a patent on phone numbers turned into hyperlinks, which dial when clicked. Say what?? They were granted that patent in 2007, years after Palm had been doing the same thing. Yes, the patent covers other stuff, but that's part of the problem: a patent should be specific and narrow to a particular invention and its applications. If portions of a patent are invalid, then the whole patent should be invalid and unenforceable.

But the USPTO seems to have no one trained to vet this stuff. They don't know what's prior art and what isn't. And technology companies are engaged in an ever-escalating arms race to patent everything they can, either defensively or offensively (and many companies do both.) It's madness, and rather than be a driver of innovation, it creates lots of unnecessary legal costs and bogs down our court system. Ultimately, consumers and taxpayers end up footing the bill for this shit, and that's totally unacceptable.
__________________
Publishing all the news that's not fit to print, FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!!!!
I has a blag.
THE Robert Maxwell is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:01 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.