Could there be a Borg King?

teacake · August 28 2012, 02:20 AM

Is the gender of the central borg important like with bees?They need a coordinating leader for the hive but I don't see why that leader needs to be female. Even if the female hormones were amping something up plenty of assimilated race wouldn't even have the same hormone receptivity.

R. Star · August 28 2012, 04:50 AM

"Gender is irrelevant?"

Actually maybe not. If the Borg Queen can seduce Data, why not a Borg King with abs of steel seducing Janeway and Seven? That's what it would be too. A sexy hot Borg to appeal to the female viewers.

Actaully this thread is predestined to end with a facepalm.

Mr. Laser Beam · August 28 2012, 04:56 AM

In the Mirror Universe, the Borg DID have a King ("The Worst of Both Worlds"). They also travelled in diamond shaped (not cube shaped) ships.

teacake · August 28 2012, 06:59 AM

R. Star wrote:

"Gender is irrelevant?"

Actually maybe not. If the Borg Queen can seduce Data, why not a Borg King with abs of steel seducing Janeway and Seven? That's what it would be too. A sexy hot Borg to appeal to the female viewers.

pfft, we don't need a Borg King to seduce Janeway and 7, the Borg Queen does just that just fine.

Actaully this thread is predestined to end with a facepalm.

It was a genuine question. We (or at least I) think of the Borg as a hive and their leader as a queen, like hive insects. But I don't think we've seen any reasons for the leader to be a specific gender. I'm just interested in what others think about this.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

In the Mirror Universe, the Borg DID have a King ("The Worst of Both Worlds"). They also travelled in diamond shaped (not cube shaped) ships.

Now that's interesting!

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Borg_King

I picture the Borg King being like David Bowie in Labyrinth.

Dream · August 28 2012, 07:57 AM

Locutus was the closest thing to that, until the TNG characters decided to ruin it for the Borg by bringing back Picard.

teacake · August 28 2012, 08:17 AM

He would have been the Borg Queen's Hand, to borrow from GoT.

Tiberius · August 28 2012, 08:22 AM

teacake wrote:

Is the gender of the central borg important like with bees?They need a coordinating leader for the hive but I don't see why that leader needs to be female. Even if the female hormones were amping something up plenty of assimilated race wouldn't even have the same hormone receptivity.

The Borg Queen is a mind that is formed from all the drones being connected together, just the way that your mind is formed from all your brain cells connected together.

By itself a brain cell has no gender identity, and neither does a drone.

But when you connect a lot of brain cells together, it forms a mind that DOES have a gender identity.

Likewise, the mind formed from all the drones connected together, has a gender identity, and it is female. The Borg Queen. There is no Borg King because there are no drones available to form another mind. All the drones available are being used as part of the Queen's mind.

And we know it's a female mind because every single time it's chosen to use a body to represent itself (controlling it like a puppet), it has chosen a female body.

(That's how the Queen keeps surviving - the body may be destroyed, but the mind is safely spread across the entire Collective.)

spot_loves_data · August 28 2012, 09:01 AM

teacake wrote:

We (or at least I) think of the Borg as a hive and their leader as a queen, like hive insects. But I don't think we've seen any reasons for the leader to be a specific gender.

I read somewhere that the borg were originally meant to look something like insects. In the end, TPTB decided against using so much of the budget for CGI.

If they'd looked more like social insects, a queen would have been mandatory. As the borg are now (humanoid), I don't see any reason to favor one sex over the other.

teacake · August 28 2012, 09:20 AM

Tiberius wrote:

teacake wrote:

Is the gender of the central borg important like with bees?They need a coordinating leader for the hive but I don't see why that leader needs to be female. Even if the female hormones were amping something up plenty of assimilated race wouldn't even have the same hormone receptivity.

The Borg Queen is a mind that is formed from all the drones being connected together, just the way that your mind is formed from all your brain cells connected together.

By itself a brain cell has no gender identity, and neither does a drone.

But when you connect a lot of brain cells together, it forms a mind that DOES have a gender identity.

Likewise, the mind formed from all the drones connected together, has a gender identity, and it is female. The Borg Queen. There is no Borg King because there are no drones available to form another mind. All the drones available are being used as part of the Queen's mind.

I didn't mean a king in addition to a queen, I meant a king instead of a queen.

And we know it's a female mind because every single time it's chosen to use a body to represent itself (controlling it like a puppet), it has chosen a female body.

But why is the gender identity always female?

R. Star · August 28 2012, 09:44 AM

teacake wrote:

But why is the gender identity always female?

If you go by the Destiny novels, it's because the being who created the Collective was female.

teacake · August 28 2012, 10:00 AM

Well what's the canon answer?

R. Star · August 28 2012, 10:18 AM

teacake wrote:

Well what's the canon answer?

There is none beyond some holywood execs wanting a "face" for the Borg in the movie.

EmoBorg · August 28 2012, 11:18 AM

According to scientists, the first sex to develop was female. The male gender then developed from the female sex. That is why males have nipples because females are the default sex in nature and the male gender developed from that. The Borg collective has a female leader maybe because it is the default gender.

Females are the first sex/gender according to scientific research. Eve came before Adam in the real world.

Dream · August 28 2012, 11:25 AM

R. Star wrote:

teacake wrote:

Well what's the canon answer?

There is none beyond some holywood execs wanting a "face" for the Borg in the movie.

The Borg became much less threatening the moment they got a face. They were never as scary as they were in Q Who.

Maurice · August 28 2012, 11:31 AM

spot_loves_data wrote:

I read somewhere that the borg were originally meant to look something like insects. In the end, TPTB decided against using so much of the budget for CGI.

CGI? CGI to create aliens? In 1989? On TV? Not a chance.

August 28 2012, 02:20 AM	#1
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Could there be a Borg King? Is the gender of the central borg important like with bees?They need a coordinating leader for the hive but I don't see why that leader needs to be female. Even if the female hormones were amping something up plenty of assimilated race wouldn't even have the same hormone receptivity. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne Last edited by teacake; August 28 2012 at 02:45 AM.

August 28 2012, 04:50 AM	#2
R. Star Commodore Location: Terra 3	Re: Could there be a Borg King? "Gender is irrelevant?" Actually maybe not. If the Borg Queen can seduce Data, why not a Borg King with abs of steel seducing Janeway and Seven? That's what it would be too. A sexy hot Borg to appeal to the female viewers. Actaully this thread is predestined to end with a facepalm. __________________ "I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams

August 28 2012, 04:56 AM	#3
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: Could there be a Borg King? In the Mirror Universe, the Borg DID have a King ("The Worst of Both Worlds"). They also travelled in diamond shaped (not cube shaped) ships. __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

August 28 2012, 07:57 AM	#5
Dream Admiral	Re: Could there be a Borg King? Locutus was the closest thing to that, until the TNG characters decided to ruin it for the Borg by bringing back Picard. __________________ TWoP Forums .

August 28 2012, 08:17 AM	#6
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Could there be a Borg King? He would have been the Borg Queen's Hand, to borrow from GoT. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

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August 28 2012, 10:00 AM	#11
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Could there be a Borg King? Well what's the canon answer? __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

August 28 2012, 11:18 AM	#13
EmoBorg Commander Location: Leela's Home Planet	Re: Could there be a Borg King? According to scientists, the first sex to develop was female. The male gender then developed from the female sex. That is why males have nipples because females are the default sex in nature and the male gender developed from that. The Borg collective has a female leader maybe because it is the default gender. Females are the first sex/gender according to scientific research. Eve came before Adam in the real world. __________________ "If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate." *Zapp Brannigan* Last edited by EmoBorg; August 28 2012 at 11:42 AM.