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Old August 26 2012, 11:46 PM   #16
Stephen!
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

They'll probably go after Microsoft next. Particularly if the Surface tablet or Windows Phone starts to gain significant market share.

Seems like it's not really a loss for Samsung at the moment, if the verdict is likely to be appealed.

http://www.zdnet.com/apple-vs-samsun...er-7000003164/

This is not the end. This verdict doesn't even matter in the long run. This was just another clash.

This case was going to be appealed, no matter who won, the second it started. This is just one more encounter on the case's way to the Supreme Court. Samsung has lost this skirmish, but not the war.
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Old August 27 2012, 12:40 AM   #17
billcosby
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
This whole thing is extremely ridiculous. My kitchen table is rectangular with rounded corners. I guess it has been designed by Apple.
Nice one, JarodRussell. I lol'ed!

I can't imagine Apple continuing to be "the apple" of anyone's eye if they are out to sue the hell out of everyone else. That's not the dreamy-eyed underdog of yesteryear.
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Old August 27 2012, 01:56 AM   #18
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

when are apple going to sue the makers of 2001 a space odyssey for having a scene of astronauts using black, rectangular ipad-like tablets in 1968?
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Old August 27 2012, 02:33 AM   #19
Tom Hendricks
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Stephen! wrote: View Post
They'll probably go after Microsoft next. Particularly if the Surface tablet or Windows Phone starts to gain significant market share.

Seems like it's not really a loss for Samsung at the moment, if the verdict is likely to be appealed.

http://www.zdnet.com/apple-vs-samsun...er-7000003164/

This is not the end. This verdict doesn't even matter in the long run. This was just another clash.

This case was going to be appealed, no matter who won, the second it started. This is just one more encounter on the case's way to the Supreme Court. Samsung has lost this skirmish, but not the war.
Microsoft actually has a license fom Apple
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/b...nse-apple.html
Looks like Apple and Microsoft are not going to end up duking it out over the look and feel of Microsoft’s Surface tablet – which looks quite similar to Apple’s iPad – thanks to a cross-licensing deal between the two companies.
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Old August 27 2012, 02:33 AM   #20
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

farmkid wrote: View Post
Throughout this whole thing I've been left wondering why Apple is going after Samsung only, and not Motorola, HTC, LG, Blackberry, and all the other smartphone manufacturers. EVERY tablet out there looks just like an iPad. Every smartphone and tablet out there has icons and a touchscreen. So why did they single out Samsung, especially considering that Apple depends on Samsung for several key components of their devices? That seems odd to me.
You need to pay a lot more attention. Apple is currently suing Samsung, and HTC, and is counter suing Motorola. Blackberry doesn't currently mimic the functionality or look of the iphone over the number of patents that Apple would currently worry about. Microsoft and its partners have licensed the technical patents from Apple (they are barred from trade dress, but most phones don't look like iphones).

Each case is limited on claims (this original claim started with something like 30 different patents, the courts will not allow you to sue for that many in one case.

In fact this case wasn't the first Apple suit brought to bear in the US, just the first to get to trail. In fact Motorola brought Apple to trial long after Apple started legal action versus Samsung and HTC, and that case got to trial first.

And just so you know Apple isn't suing because a company is using a flat screen, apple has never claimed ownership of flat screens, nor are the suing because a company is using icons, as they didn't first create icons.

Seriously how some people still use that as an argument baffles me with the huge amount of very specific data out there over this case, and the 40 plus around the world.

Icons can be all over the place, with each having unique designs to them. In this case Samsung was sued because some icons matched the icons used by apple. By Color, be design, by image angle. Same size, same number of rows, some number of icons in rows, and same placement on those said rows.


They could have had 4 rows with four icons each, and if the icons were designed significantly different there would be no case. Most phones they have enough unique factors where they wouldn't fall for Trade Dress, and of course some are truly different like Windows Phones, which look dramatically different from apple or android, or Blackberry.

No other major phone company matches the look of the iphone as close as early Samsung products did. Thats what got Samsung in the biggest trouble. Trade Dress.

I mean Google themselves warned Samsung to change their designs as they were to close to Apple's.

And on the issue of technical patents Samsung could have done the same thing they did with Microsoft and thats to license the technical patents apple has. That company choose not to.
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Old August 27 2012, 02:43 AM   #21
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

I'll ask my friend who knows a lot more about patent law to give his thoughts. The rectangular design with round corners thing wasn't the issue here, that's just Samsung being sarcastic. These things are odd to take to jury because of how technical they are, but it's a quirk of the system. The damages will get reduced on appeal either way. Some have said that they can use this verdict against others. They can't legally use it, although they may scare others. It's entirely possible that another jury could have decided this differently.

Anyway, I don't know enough about patent law or the differences between their designs to accurately give an opinion. At least the jury here got instructed on the law. I'm curious how this will affect the future for smart phones.
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Old August 27 2012, 02:53 AM   #22
mswood
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Stephen! wrote: View Post
They'll probably go after Microsoft next. Particularly if the Surface tablet or Windows Phone starts to gain significant market share.

Seems like it's not really a loss for Samsung at the moment, if the verdict is likely to be appealed.

http://www.zdnet.com/apple-vs-samsun...er-7000003164/

This is not the end. This verdict doesn't even matter in the long run. This was just another clash.

This case was going to be appealed, no matter who won, the second it started. This is just one more encounter on the case's way to the Supreme Court. Samsung has lost this skirmish, but not the war.
Why on earth would Apple sue Microsoft. Microsoft licenses Apple's technical patents. That's something Samsung refused to do with Apple (HTC, and Motorola also refused offers to license).

Samsung is in deep problem with this case, the issue isn't the money. Its the verdict. Sure the verdict can go up (they still have to wait for the judge to rule on tripling of damages, which is done when a company knowingly copies another's work). And it can get reduced on appeal. But its rare that a full jury verdict gets reversed.

And the money isn't the biggest issue, the verdict is. With the Verdict Appel should be easily able to in force bans on all products that were ruled. They can expand the case to any other product that uses those utility patents. THey also have one other case against Samsung about to start in the US over different utility patents. Due to this ruling, they can use the finding that Samsung knowingly copied another company's product. It makes it easier to find guilt in civil cases.

The also will be able to start going after the SIII.

As for Samsung of course they will appeal, but that wont stop a ban of their products. It wont stop the verdict being known in the other case. And it will put the company into a position where it might finally decide maybe we should start to license Apple's technical patents.

This is want happened with Microsoft, Microsoft took a couple companies to trial, and started winning, that then pushed most of the players in the smart phone business to pay a license to Microsoft to license their technical smart phone patents like Apple has done from the get go of their iphone.

And as it stands now Microsoft make more of those licenses then they do selling Smart Phones.

The problem with Android as opposed to any other phone operating system and why companies have been very reluctant to buy license agreements is that those agreements seriously cut into their profit making ability. They all fight one another to undercut the other, making it a race to the bottom (which also has happened for decades with Windows computers).
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Old August 27 2012, 03:02 AM   #23
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Seriously are people really that stupid to actually believe Apple has the right to any rectangle. Seriously are they that stupid?
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Old August 27 2012, 03:34 AM   #24
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

I'm going to use the "rubber banding" that apple threw a fit over here: Are you telling me that if my "rubber banding" effect in a different OS looks like Apples "rubber banding" effect, even if I didn't use the same code to achieve it is enough to get me a guilty verdict in court? This is okay? Really? I could understand if samsung bought an iphone, extracted the os from the Iphone, modified it and slapped their logos all over it, and then installed it into their own devices. THAT would be stealing. I think the Google Giant needs to awaken and Sue Apple for Intimidating companies that use it's products.
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Old August 27 2012, 04:24 AM   #25
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

mswood wrote: View Post
Seriously are people really that stupid to actually believe Apple has the right to any rectangle. Seriously are they that stupid?
People don't understand design or parallel evolution. How many combinations can you make when trying to design a small device that fits in your pocket that has a capacitative screen, a lithium battery, a cell transmitter/receiver and the guts of a small computer. I guess Samsung could have made their device look like glass coasters or women's compacts but come on. Maybe Daimler-Benz can sue Ford and Toyota for making carriages with 4 wheels and a motor.
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Old August 27 2012, 05:18 AM   #26
mswood
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

It depends, there are two aspect of patent law. One being if you do with different code something that duplicates the exact process of what someone else has a patent on then yes you are infringing.

There is also a part of patent law (thats harder to prove, and used far less often) that basically means even if your way of doing something doesn't mirror what I have patent, but still appears to do the same thing, also would be an infringement.

The 2nd one is far, far more unlikely to held viable in a court situation (but over the last hundred plus years has been successful a few times).

For example, Apple was found to violate a patent from either Motorola or Samsung for automatic notifications. Apple did it slightly differently but close enough for that country's laws. So they had to drop that feature on its phones and instead have witched to a notifications that isn't immediately pushed to the phone, but is done like every minute or so.

Its way companies go to great lengths to find usable and viable means to invalidate a patent, and no the device in 2001 isn't going to hold water in the court system (hasn't in any country its been tried, 4 that I know of).

To the best of my knowledge no portable (which does include laptops) has been shown to have that rubber band effect that Apple introduced (and trust me companies have looked).

People bitch about Apple, yet I have yet to hear the alarm about over Microsoft suing to get license agreements (of which Apple was first to sign up with, both sign cross license agreements long ago over mobile tech), and most of the major players eventually after a few lost court cases signed up with 5 - 15 dollars a phone for android going to Microsoft.

Nor has anyone really brought up Samsung terrible counter suit. Suing Apple over patents that cannot be charged twice.

Intel covered the license of the chips, and Apple then purchased those chips from Samsung. They can't Double dip its in their very contract (nor or they supposed to charge one customer more then another). Apple just had to present receipts and it killed their entire counter suit, that they were asking for nearly half a billion for. Things that Intel paid a tiny fraction of that (literally less then a penny on the dollar).

Also people forget that Apple has been developing portables since the 1990's. And while the Newton died, their work never stopped (the trial went into this, and even some of the patents go back to the Newton itself). A lot of people have said well my phone did this function or that function in 2005 for example and not realizing that the issue in question (especially some coming up in the 2nd trial in California) are from patents back in the 90's due to the Newton. Just that very few consumers are aware of much about the Newton, and Apple's development tech for that. Patents in this case of 17 / 20 year life spans.
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Old August 27 2012, 07:03 AM   #27
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

Yminale wrote: View Post
mswood wrote: View Post
Seriously are people really that stupid to actually believe Apple has the right to any rectangle. Seriously are they that stupid?
People don't understand design or parallel evolution. How many combinations can you make when trying to design a small device that fits in your pocket that has a capacitative screen, a lithium battery, a cell transmitter/receiver and the guts of a small computer. I guess Samsung could have made their device look like glass coasters or women's compacts but come on. Maybe Daimler-Benz can sue Ford and Toyota for making carriages with 4 wheels and a motor.
In 2003 Jeep sued Hummer over the design of their Grille.
http://www.mrtraffic.com/hummer.htm
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Old August 27 2012, 12:54 PM   #28
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

mswood, I don't think you can blame someone for a countersuit or defensive pleading. It's only brought up because you are the defendant in the first place.

Anyway, that sounds like an accurate description of Patent Law. I think an argument can be made that they are enforced too broadly (there was a big case recently about whether it's possible to get a patent for a discovery of natural law. The case more or less ducked the issue because they didn't want to categorically say no, but could you imagine if Newton patented "gravity"?).
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Old August 27 2012, 01:15 PM   #29
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

What about Google's Nexus 7? Total Ripoff.
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Old August 28 2012, 04:58 PM   #30
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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Trial

I can't edit my last post.

Found this on the interblag:
http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net...95630_700b.jpg

Though I don't know if the facts are correct. If true, Apple shouldn't have any rights to claim anything.
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