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Old August 25 2012, 01:59 PM   #16
Use of Time
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Timo wrote: View Post
what made Starfleet decide Ben Sisko was the best choice for the difficult mission to Bajor?
We don't really know Starfleet made such a decision. It might be that there was no particular incentive to choose the best; rather, somebody who wasn't useful in any other task (as Sisko's therapist after Wolf 359 would unprofessionally but practically squeal to the Commander's superiors) could be dumped there.

The assignment to manage the station for Bajor may have been intended to be relatively short. Get in, wait for Bajor to regain its industrial base and self-confidence, have them kick Starfleet out and shout curses after the departing runabouts, and begone. No hope of Bajoran membership, ever, considering how hostile the locals were - and good riddance to the worthless planet anyway.

Without the appearance of the wormhole and the involvement of the Prophets, Sisko's assignment would probably have ended in something like the Circle Trilogy anyway, barely a year into the mission. Cardassians would probably have been secretly or openly manipulating things even without the added incentive of the wormhole, and Bajor would soon have fallen into their sphere of influence again. And Starfleet could have calculated that sending good and competent people there would be a waste of material.

Timo Saloniemi
Good point, and we can further rationalize that Sisko was able to remain in command after the discovery of the wormhole because Starfleet hadn't factored in that Sisko would be able to endear himself to Kai Opaka and become their Emissary. They wouldn't be able to move him for political reasons.
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Old August 25 2012, 02:02 PM   #17
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

It's always seemed to me that Sisko was on the fast-track to getting a ship of his own (much as Riker had been) prior to Jennifer's death, as he had already served as first officer twice. Her death was such a profound blow, however, that it sent his life into a tailspin, and caused his career to stagnate. By the time Starfleet was ready to assume control of Terok Nor, Sisko had been promoted to full commander- one step from a captaincy- but he was so frustrated and unhappy with his life in Starfleet that he was considering leaving it behind.

Having served with Sisko aboard the Okinawa, Thomas Leyton understood the younger man's potenetial. As an admiral, he was almost certainly aware of Sisko's unhappiness with Starfleet, and recognized that offering a ship to someone wasn't invested in such an assignment would not be prudent.

Enter Deep Space 9, a space station built by Cardassia, located near a backwater, low-priority planet. Leyton likely recognized that recommending Sisko for this assingment was a low-risk move. Bajor was unlikely to join the Federation, so Sisko's leaving wouldn't impact the Federation as significantly as if he were commanding the Enterprise, or handling another assignment of great importance. However, if Sisko were able establish a rapport with Bajor- something no other Starfleet officer had accomplished- it would ensure him of a captaincy and restore his career to its original track.
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Old August 25 2012, 11:25 PM   #18
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Timo wrote: View Post
what made Starfleet decide Ben Sisko was the best choice for the difficult mission to Bajor?
We don't really know Starfleet made such a decision. It might be that there was no particular incentive to choose the best; rather, somebody who wasn't useful in any other task (as Sisko's therapist after Wolf 359 would unprofessionally but practically squeal to the Commander's superiors) could be dumped there.

The assignment to manage the station for Bajor may have been intended to be relatively short. Get in, wait for Bajor to regain its industrial base and self-confidence, have them kick Starfleet out and shout curses after the departing runabouts, and begone. No hope of Bajoran membership, ever, considering how hostile the locals were - and good riddance to the worthless planet anyway.

Without the appearance of the wormhole and the involvement of the Prophets, Sisko's assignment would probably have ended in something like the Circle Trilogy anyway, barely a year into the mission. Cardassians would probably have been secretly or openly manipulating things even without the added incentive of the wormhole, and Bajor would soon have fallen into their sphere of influence again. And Starfleet could have calculated that sending good and competent people there would be a waste of material.

Timo Saloniemi
I agree with this except for the bolded. I think they sent good and competent people when they sent Sisko and crew; they just didn't expect them to succeed like you mentioned.



Use of Time wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
what made Starfleet decide Ben Sisko was the best choice for the difficult mission to Bajor?
We don't really know Starfleet made such a decision [...]

Timo Saloniemi
Good point, and we can further rationalize that Sisko was able to remain in command after the discovery of the wormhole because Starfleet hadn't factored in that Sisko would be able to endear himself to Kai Opaka and become their Emissary. They wouldn't be able to move him for political reasons.
Exactly. This might be where the whole destiny aspect of the Prophets comes in. It was as if the stars were in alignment, if you believe in that sort of thing.

The wormhole probably opened up ONLY because their Emmisary had come, and without the wormhole, DS9 was significantly less important. Without the Emmisary, the people of Bajor would have been far more difficult to work with. And without Starfleet, the Cardassians would have likely taken over again, and so on and so on...

As it turned out, Sisko ended up being the only one that could effectively do the job.

Admiral_Sisko wrote: View Post
It's always seemed to me that Sisko was on the fast-track to getting a ship of his own (much as Riker had been) prior to Jennifer's death, as he had already served as first officer twice. Her death was such a profound blow, however, that it sent his life into a tailspin, and caused his career to stagnate. By the time Starfleet was ready to assume control of Terok Nor, Sisko had been promoted to full commander- one step from a captaincy- but he was so frustrated and unhappy with his life in Starfleet that he was considering leaving it behind.

Having served with Sisko aboard the Okinawa, Thomas Leyton understood the younger man's potenetial. As an admiral, he was almost certainly aware of Sisko's unhappiness with Starfleet, and recognized that offering a ship to someone wasn't invested in such an assignment would not be prudent.

Enter Deep Space 9, a space station built by Cardassia, located near a backwater, low-priority planet. Leyton likely recognized that recommending Sisko for this assingment was a low-risk move. Bajor was unlikely to join the Federation, so Sisko's leaving wouldn't impact the Federation as significantly as if he were commanding the Enterprise, or handling another assignment of great importance. However, if Sisko were able establish a rapport with Bajor- something no other Starfleet officer had accomplished- it would ensure him of a captaincy and restore his career to its original track.
Agreed. And the low-risk wasn't just for Leyton, but for Sisko as well. If it all fell through, it wouldn't have counted against Sisko because Starfleet didn't seem to expect much anyway. So in that sense, Leyton was really looking out for him while hoping the assignment would be just the kick in the pants Sisko needed to be prepared for his own starship some day.
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Old August 25 2012, 11:33 PM   #19
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Picard told him that his orders were, short of violating the Prime Directive was to get Bajor into the Federation. Sisko was also meant to be an admin. on the station, the wormhole and his position as Emmisary changed things.
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Old August 26 2012, 12:31 AM   #20
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Tomalak wrote: View Post
Aside from divine intervention on the part of the Prophets, what made Starfleet decide Ben Sisko was the best choice for the difficult mission to Bajor?

He doesn't appear to have any experience in diplomacy. As far as I know, he was a starship bridge officer, and then went into designing weapons and ships after Wolf 359.

The Bajor posting required someone who could balance the vying factions and rebuild a world shattered by decades of occupation, oppression, malnutrition and barbarism, and prepare them for Federation membership. It also needed someone capable of handling the Cardassians.

Now obviously in retrospect they made the right choice. But if the wormhole had been known prior to his appointment, would a more senior, more experienced officer have been assigned instead? Was Sisko given a helping hand by a friend at Starfleet Command?
Yeah, I agree. The magnitude of what the position entailed even before the discovery of the wormhole seemed to warrant more than a CDR who seemed halfway interested in his career to say the least. I would think a seasoned Captain, hell maybe even an Admiral would be required for something like that. I'm sure Bajor was thrilled.
Well, since they ended up with Jesus...I'm sure they were thrilled.
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Old August 26 2012, 01:46 AM   #21
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Jesus? Sisko didn't die for anybody's sins.

I disagree with a seasoned Captain or Admiral being needed for the job. They were sent to provide a buffer between the Bajorans and Cardassians and see if the Bajorans would join the Federation. You don't need a seasoned Captain or Admiral for that, especially when they place was practically dead with people still abandoning it.

I could just imagine an Admiral’s response to being assigned there: “What? And where is that again? Okay, and you want me to run along to a nearly abandoned space station with a security detail to see if a conquered and struggling people would want to join a large Federation of planets that could protect them while they rebuild. That doesn’t seem like much of a challenge. Are you sure you don’t have a fleet for me to run or something?”
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Old August 26 2012, 01:40 PM   #22
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Jesus? Sisko didn't die for anybody's sins.

I disagree with a seasoned Captain or Admiral being needed for the job. They were sent to provide a buffer between the Bajorans and Cardassians and see if the Bajorans would join the Federation. You don't need a seasoned Captain or Admiral for that, especially when they place was practically dead with people still abandoning it.

I could just imagine an Admiral’s response to being assigned there: “What? And where is that again? Okay, and you want me to run along to a nearly abandoned space station with a security detail to see if a conquered and struggling people would want to join a large Federation of planets that could protect them while they rebuild. That doesn’t seem like much of a challenge. Are you sure you don’t have a fleet for me to run or something?”
Well it was a lot more than just running a station. If it was just the station then I could see a CDR doing that. There was also a permanent diplomatic responsibility with a very fragile race that they were trying to coax into the Federation while at the same time keeping the Cardassians at bay. I don't think we can look at that as some miniscule assignment. Also sending a CDR shows Bajor just how important you consider them.
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Old August 26 2012, 07:30 PM   #23
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Also sending a CDR shows Bajor just how important you consider them.
So in all probability that was the message Starfleet wanted to send...

Picard of course had a different agenda there, as he had from "Ensign Ro" on developed something of a guilt complex or whatever. But that would be just his personal position, something he would whisper in Sisko's ear in an intimate situation well after Sisko had received his official orders from Starfleet.

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Old August 26 2012, 07:51 PM   #24
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Jesus? Sisko didn't die for anybody's sins.
This is what wikipedia says a metaphor is:

A metaphor is a literary figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
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Old August 26 2012, 11:49 PM   #25
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Timo wrote: View Post
Also sending a CDR shows Bajor just how important you consider them.
So in all probability that was the message Starfleet wanted to send...

Picard of course had a different agenda there, as he had from "Ensign Ro" on developed something of a guilt complex or whatever. But that would be just his personal position, something he would whisper in Sisko's ear in an intimate situation well after Sisko had received his official orders from Starfleet.

Timo Saloniemi
1st sentence...What exactly would that message be?

As for the rest, I have no idea what you are talking about with Picard and Sisko whispering things to each other.
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Old August 27 2012, 12:03 AM   #26
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Jesus? Sisko didn't die for anybody's sins.

I disagree with a seasoned Captain or Admiral being needed for the job. They were sent to provide a buffer between the Bajorans and Cardassians and see if the Bajorans would join the Federation. You don't need a seasoned Captain or Admiral for that, especially when they place was practically dead with people still abandoning it.

I could just imagine an Admiral’s response to being assigned there: “What? And where is that again? Okay, and you want me to run along to a nearly abandoned space station with a security detail to see if a conquered and struggling people would want to join a large Federation of planets that could protect them while they rebuild. That doesn’t seem like much of a challenge. Are you sure you don’t have a fleet for me to run or something?”
Well it was a lot more than just running a station. If it was just the station then I could see a CDR doing that. There was also a permanent diplomatic responsibility with a very fragile race that they were trying to coax into the Federation while at the same time keeping the Cardassians at bay. I don't think we can look at that as some miniscule assignment. Also sending a CDR shows Bajor just how important you consider them.
And that's why an Emissary was needed. You seem to be overlooking the whole "the stars were in alignment" aspect of it. Still, even with the point you are making, a very seasoned Commander (as Sisko was) could handle that assignment. I suppose a seasoned Captain could too, but that's where the "nobody wanted the post" comes in. If you don't want to do something, you find a way to pass it along to someone who can't get out of it. But, an Admiral? No.

If we were dealing with more than 2 civilizations at odds with each other, and a choice that probably seemed obvious to Starfleet if the Bajorans wanted to be able to build (but of course they could understand if the Bajorans didn't want to feel "ruled" again), then maybe someone at Admiral level would have warranted the post.

Squiggy wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Jesus? Sisko didn't die for anybody's sins.
This is what wikipedia says a metaphor is:

A metaphor is a literary figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
Yes, and my point was that it is a bad metaphor. You may want to go with a simile next time, especially if you want to liken Sisko to Jesus, which if that's what you were trying to do, then I could understand Sisko being "Christ-like" in some ways.
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Old August 27 2012, 01:01 AM   #27
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

^You on the one hand use the 'stars in alignment' symbolism, then in the next suggest that Sisko/Christ is a bad metaphor? Don't you recall the Three Wise Men or Little Star of Bethlehem stories?
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Old August 27 2012, 01:04 AM   #28
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Simple; it was the Prophet's will.

Plus the Prophet's move in mysterious ways...
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Old August 27 2012, 01:18 AM   #29
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Jesus? Sisko didn't die for anybody's sins.

I disagree with a seasoned Captain or Admiral being needed for the job. They were sent to provide a buffer between the Bajorans and Cardassians and see if the Bajorans would join the Federation. You don't need a seasoned Captain or Admiral for that, especially when they place was practically dead with people still abandoning it.

I could just imagine an Admiral’s response to being assigned there: “What? And where is that again? Okay, and you want me to run along to a nearly abandoned space station with a security detail to see if a conquered and struggling people would want to join a large Federation of planets that could protect them while they rebuild. That doesn’t seem like much of a challenge. Are you sure you don’t have a fleet for me to run or something?”
Well it was a lot more than just running a station. If it was just the station then I could see a CDR doing that. There was also a permanent diplomatic responsibility with a very fragile race that they were trying to coax into the Federation while at the same time keeping the Cardassians at bay. I don't think we can look at that as some miniscule assignment. Also sending a CDR shows Bajor just how important you consider them.
And that's why an Emissary was needed. You seem to be overlooking the whole "the stars were in alignment" aspect of it. Still, even with the point you are making, a very seasoned Commander (as Sisko was) could handle that assignment. I suppose a seasoned Captain could too, but that's where the "nobody wanted the post" comes in. If you don't want to do something, you find a way to pass it along to someone who can't get out of it. But, an Admiral? No.

If we were dealing with more than 2 civilizations at odds with each other, and a choice that probably seemed obvious to Starfleet if the Bajorans wanted to be able to build (but of course they could understand if the Bajorans didn't want to feel "ruled" again), then maybe someone at Admiral level would have warranted the post.

Squiggy wrote: View Post

This is what wikipedia says a metaphor is:

A metaphor is a literary figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
Yes, and my point was that it is a bad metaphor. You may want to go with a simile next time, especially if you want to liken Sisko to Jesus, which if that's what you were trying to do, then I could understand Sisko being "Christ-like" in some ways.
Oh, I forgot to factor in the "stars in alignment" thing. My bad.

So a CAPT or Admiral would be too much because...you say so?
Ok fine, how about an Ambassador then? That would have made a fine addition to the main cast.
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Old August 27 2012, 01:22 AM   #30
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Re: Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
^You on the one hand use the 'stars in alignment' symbolism, then in the next suggest that Sisko/Christ is a bad metaphor? Don't you recall the Three Wise Men or Little Star of Bethlehem stories?
Yes, I do recall them. There are many things about Sisko's story that are like that of Christ, but it is not the same story. He didn't die to save anyone from their sins, he didn't recruit disciples and swear off everything else so he could go to and fro preaching the gospel, he wasn't born of a virgin who was impregnated by the Prophets... There are lots of things that are similar, but not the same.
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