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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 25 2012, 11:48 AM   #751
Ghostface1701
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

davejames wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
The enhanced visuals and sound are appreciated, but they're not changing my opinion of the episodes themselves. The story, ideas, writing and acting remain the same.
I don't know. For me, the muddy picture and awful coloring before was always such a huge distraction, that it kept me from enjoying all but the very best of the episodes-- episodes where the writing was so strong, nothing was going to bring them down.

But now, with the picture cleaned up so beautifully, I find myself liking some of the more average episodes a lot more. Episodes like Symbiosis, Hide and Q, and even Lonely Among Us, which I always dismissed before, actually seem pretty damn good now.

Obviously the terrible episodes like Code of Honor and Angel One are still terrible, but for the most part I'd say the remastering has improved the season quite a bit.
I know what you mean. I've finished the season now, and I was surprised at how tolerable most of the episodes were. The improved visuals really helped, as did not having seen many of these episodes in a couple of decades, if ever. For some reason, I'd seen Justice more times than is right, but even that seemed new and appealing this time round (maybe it was all that skin)...

I'd held-off ordering Season 1 due to fear, but I had such a good time with it in the end, I'm now really looking forward to Season 2. I might even watch Shades of Gray! I can't imagine how I'll feel when I get my hands on the Season 3 set next year!
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Old August 25 2012, 12:14 PM   #752
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Here's the next EAS article in the observations series. This time: "Justice":
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Old August 25 2012, 01:20 PM   #753
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

TrekCore is talking to CBS Digital next week. Visit the thread here: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=6857147 to post all your questions.
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Old August 25 2012, 01:22 PM   #754
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
MikeS wrote: View Post
^Thanks.

Although I can't see much of a difference actually!
Same here. Extremely hard to notice.
When I watched the episode I spotted it immediately. The screenshot does not convey the huge difference in quality. My wife also picked up on it right away.
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Old August 25 2012, 01:48 PM   #755
Jeyl
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Just finished Season One with "The Neutral Zone", and there's one line that has me conflicted.

Picard: We've eliminated hunger, want. The need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy.

....Does this mean I should return my BluRay set since I wanted it and now possess it? It feels weird buying something and having it call me infant-minded for wanting to own it.
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Old August 25 2012, 02:43 PM   #756
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

^Even in the future crew members have a few valued possessions, i.e. Picards books, Data's Hologram of Tasha, etc... You are allowed to own the entire TNG Bluray set, you just have to give away everything else
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Old August 25 2012, 06:08 PM   #757
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Just watched Too Short a Season, and while it's watchable enough, I'm having a hard time understanding what the point of it all was. As far as I can tell, it was only to watch a guy de-age over the course of an episode.

And that was a VERY strange and uncharacteristic music score they used in the episode. Sounded like it was from an entirely different series, and not even a scifi one at that. IMDB says it was by some guy named George Romanis, which I guess means Chattaway and Jones were busy that week or something.

And I had no idea until now that the villain in this episode is the same "Garbage Scow" Klingon from Trouble with Tribbles! Looked almost nothing like him.
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Old August 25 2012, 07:08 PM   #758
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Picard: We've eliminated hunger, want. The need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy.

....Does this mean I should return my BluRay set since I wanted it and now possess it? It feels weird buying something and having it call me infant-minded for wanting to own it.
Let's work on eliminating hunger before you worry about buying a few Blu-rays, eh?
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Old August 25 2012, 09:15 PM   #759
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Just finished Season One with "The Neutral Zone", and there's one line that has me conflicted.

Picard: We've eliminated hunger, want. The need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy.

....Does this mean I should return my BluRay set since I wanted it and now possess it? It feels weird buying something and having it call me infant-minded for wanting to own it.
I think you're reading way too deeply into it. By "eliminating want" Picard means that humans no longer always want more and more and more at the cost of their own financial security or at the cost of other's financial security.

Everyone gets exactly what they need to live and can do exactly whatever it is what they want to do. There's no longer a "want" for more because you can always have everything you need almost literally at the press of a button.

There's no longer rich people wanting to be richer.

There's no longer middle-class people wanting to be rich.

Moreover there's no longer countless millions living in squalor or on the streets wanting simply shelter and food.

It's an interesting exchange between Picard and Offenhaus and I really wish we had gotten much more on the 20th century people AND from the Romulan sub-plot. Really I think both stories could warrant their own complete episodes. It'd have also been interesting to see how the later, more serious and solid, seasons would have handled these 20th century humans.

Offenhaus also makes a pretty solid point when Picard recants the claim that Offenhaus' riches were for "control over his destiny." Picard says, "That kind of control is an illusion." Offenhaus quite correctly points out that his money DID buy him control over his future since money was enough to undo his own death and allow him to be revived in the distant future.

It's also interesting that he points out how much he paid for this procedure, Sonny also seems to suggest it cost almost his entire net-worth (preventing it from going to his exes) yet the woman survivor doesn't seem like she's from a very wealthy lifestyle. (Further supported by the fact that her husband seemed flighty with their money.) So obviously the procedure was cheap enough for a middle-class man to afford.

I will say this episode goes a bit far when it comes to "20th Century Human Bashing." There's times when Riker almost seems amused by these people but he resorts to bad-mouthing us when they're out of the room, wondering aloud how humans made it out of the 21st century.

Seriously, Riker?

I realize how they're so much more advanced than us not only technologically or culturally but today we're much more advanced than our 17th century counterparts, more civilized in countless ways and certainly better off in many ways. But we would hardly call them barbaric savages who nearly ruined humanity. (Even accepting the Eugenic Wars and WW3 in the 20th/21st centuries in Trek's history.) Riker, and Picard, should accept humans "are what they are" and couldn't change overnight. Bad-mouthing certainly the much "less civilized" 20th century humans could make a level of sense. But, sheesh, guys. Humanity wasn't going to change itself overnight.

I know some EU stuff touched on what happened to Offenhaus (eventually becoming an Ambassador to the Ferengi) and somewhat to the woman, but I don't think much on Sonny. I sort of like to think his music and style was accepted pretty well given how it was likely something very different than what people listen to "presently."

The interaction between Sonny and Data was fun and I do like how Offenhaus was able to read the Romulans so "easily." But he does act like a bit of a gigantic idiot. He's told he's on a starship, light years away from Earth and he keeps demanding a communications device somehow obtusely in the belief his lawfirm and bank have survived four hundred years worth of changes to society. He also says that whatever is going on on the ship "must seem important" to Picard but Picard couldn't really understand how much Offenhaus has to protect.

Shut up, Ralph. You claim to be aware of the situation. This must not include the idea that you're on a space ship (what you considered a military craft) light years from Earth and that the man you're talking to is responsible for not only YOUR life but over 1000 others. When the man in charge tells you you're in a dangerous situation while in a huge piece of metal floating billions of miles from Earth you BELIEVE HIM!

I also think it's funny the woman thinks she can tell the computer, "Johnny, he's four." when researching her family history and the computer's going to know exactly who she's talking about based on such scant information.
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Old August 25 2012, 11:13 PM   #760
Jeyl
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I think you're reading way too deeply into it. By "eliminating want" Picard means that humans no longer always want more and more and more at the cost of their own financial security or at the cost of other's financial security.
So... why not just say that instead of stating that eliminating "want" in it's most absolute form? Picard seems to have little to no interest in telling this guy that anything he wants he could probably get without the use of money or lawyers. But no, he just tells them that possessions are a thing of the past and he needs to grow up.
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Old August 26 2012, 12:48 AM   #761
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

NewHorizon wrote: View Post
tomalak301 wrote: View Post
MikeS wrote: View Post
^Thanks.

Although I can't see much of a difference actually!
Same here. Extremely hard to notice.
When I watched the episode I spotted it immediately. The screenshot does not convey the huge difference in quality. My wife also picked up on it right away.
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tomalak301 wrote: View Post
MikeS wrote: View Post
Although I can't see much of a difference actually!
Same here. Extremely hard to notice.
WTF!? I see it immediately! All the details are gone in the upconverted SD image...

I often wonder, why many people dont see the quality encrease of an HD image. I hope, it's just my 130% eyesight sharpness...
Ok, I have to know, was I being mocked? I find it odd that two people in this thread mentioned their wives being able to spot it and I couldn't. I know, I'm not the smartest when it comes to screen resolution. Hell, I don't even know what the hell SD Up-conversion means. Still, I went back to the scene last night and rewound it, watched it many times, and I still couldn't see it. So with that being said, congratulations, your wives have better eye-sites than I do.

Oh, and to use this has a teaching thing maybe, how do you guys know. I see the screencap, and other than the turning of the head, they look exactly the same.

However, to show I am not completely dumb when it comes to this stuff, I am noticing a much clearer image, and while it's a subtle scene, I thought the final shot in Conspiracy (With the Nebula and the stars and the beeping showing that the message was sent) was one of the more beautiful shots of the season, probably over those of "Where No One Has Gone Before". Just the clarity of that scene added to the overall mood of the episode, and made me wish (As I always have) that it was the Season Finale instead of Neutral Zone.

Speaking of "The Neutral Zone", the more I watch this episode, the more I don't like it. Yeah so they reintroduced the romulans, joy. The only problem with that was it was overshadowed by the 20th century humans and how much they were bashed in. Like Trekker said, the stuff with Sonny and Data were great, but everything made me somewhat believe people who rip on the series (As was the case a lot when I first got to the board in 2003) saying the crew has a freaking holier than thou attitude and it was a big turnoff. I'm glad they calmed down in the later seasons but that whole thing made me probably like Shades of Gray more than The Neutral Zone in terms of Season finales and that's saying something.
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Old August 26 2012, 01:31 AM   #762
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
I don't even know what the hell SD Up-conversion means.
It means the standard definition image was enlarged digitally to high definition. Previously, season one existed on 1-inch analog videotape with an equivalent digital resolution of 704 by 480 pixels. Essentially, every original pixel of the digitized tape became four pixels through a process known as bicubic interpolation. It is now 1440 by 1080. They adjusted the color and contrast levels to match the new film scan as best they could and then they added fake film grain over it.

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
Oh, and to use this has a teaching thing maybe, how do you guys know. I see the screencap, and other than the turning of the head, they look exactly the same.
Well, other that the fact that it doesn't at all look like it came from a modern 4K/2K film scan, it's also missing 17% of the image the preceding shot of Riker has. So it's obviously the 2 second shot mentioned on the back cover.
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Old August 26 2012, 02:52 AM   #763
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I think you're reading way too deeply into it. By "eliminating want" Picard means that humans no longer always want more and more and more at the cost of their own financial security or at the cost of other's financial security.
So... why not just say that instead of stating that eliminating "want" in it's most absolute form? Picard seems to have little to no interest in telling this guy that anything he wants he could probably get without the use of money or lawyers. But no, he just tells them that possessions are a thing of the past and he needs to grow up.
He tells him no such thing. Possessions are obviously not a thing of past given that every single person we've ever encountered in all of Trek has had possessions they are attached to and obviously want. We SEE people in Trek encounter things they want. But we do not see them drive to get those wants at all costs, including the cost of other's lives and safety.

It's pretty clear to see what Picard meant when he made his speech without seeing it as "people no longer have possessions."

It means the standard definition image was enlarged digitally to high definition. Previously, season one existed on 1-inch analog videotape with an equivalent digital resolution of 704 by 480 pixels. Essentially, every original pixel of the digitized tape became four pixels through a process known as bicubic interpolation. It is now 1440 by 1080. They adjusted the color and contrast levels to match the new film scan as best they could and then they added fake film grain over it.
Actually "up-conversion" means "we added bullshit between pixels so that the picture will fit your screen." An HD TV is 1080 pixels wide, a DVD is only 480 pixels wide, meaning a DVD image would only take up less than half of your screen. When something is "up-converted" a computer algorithm extrapolates what should exist between pixels in order to make a 480 picture fit a 1080 screen. Resulting in a picture that "fills the screen" but can look blurry or fuzzy since what exactly those pixels are supposed to be is different than what the up-converting process makes them.

This was worse with TNG since it was never even upgraded to the higher resolution of DVD but came straight from videotape. Which while the resolution of tape the show was edited on is higher than what was seen in broadcast or on VHS it's still on DVD quality.

"Up-converting" =/= Making something HD.

The only way to make something HD is to go to the original source (film) and get the information there since film the only place with enough information to get the details to produce a true HD picture.
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Last edited by Trekker4747; August 26 2012 at 03:02 AM.
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Old August 26 2012, 02:53 AM   #764
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I will say this episode goes a bit far when it comes to "20th Century Human Bashing." There's times when Riker almost seems amused by these people but he resorts to bad-mouthing us when they're out of the room, wondering aloud how humans made it out of the 21st century.
Yeah maybe they were all a little too harsh in their judgment, but I still thought most of their criticisms were pretty fair.

I don't think you can just chalk up humanity's problems today to us not being evolved enough, or simply "not knowing any better." There's clearly a LOT of greed and selfishness and stupidity at the heart of it as well-- and I think the show was right to comment on that.
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Old August 26 2012, 03:22 AM   #765
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

davejames wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I will say this episode goes a bit far when it comes to "20th Century Human Bashing." There's times when Riker almost seems amused by these people but he resorts to bad-mouthing us when they're out of the room, wondering aloud how humans made it out of the 21st century.
Yeah maybe they were all a little too harsh in their judgment, but I still thought most of their criticisms were pretty fair.

I don't think you can just chalk up humanity's problems today to us not being evolved enough, or simply "not knowing any better." There's clearly a LOT of greed and selfishness and stupidity at the heart of it as well-- and I think the show was right to comment on that.
Maybe it's just human nature to "talk down to the little guy"? What I mean is look at how people treated the Native Americans. They were called Savages and had their land invaded.

Still, it doesn't negate the fact that these are 20th century humans who don't know any better. If there was one thing the episode did kind of well (And again, I don't like this episode very much) is that it showed the human reaction side to being tossed into a different time and being "out of time and place". However, my problem is Picard seemed to not understand that bit. It's the same as what he said to Q about the uniforms in Encounter at Farpoint. People have different mentalities to them, kind of the overall make up of who they are. To criticize that is to almost criticize human nature and I don't think that's fair at all.
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